Can Punk Music Rise Again Or Is It Fated to the Underground with Gone Stereo

Chris Lynam, Matty Lupinacci, Danny DiGiuseppe, and Mike Drinkwalter are members of the Long Island-based band Gone Stereo.

They're known for their innovative approach to pop punk, incorporating elements from various rock genres to craft a mature, distinctive sound.

They've been active musicians for decades and consistently contribute to the punk scene with their dynamic musical style. Episode Summary:

In this engaging episode, host Isaac Kuhlman brings together members of the Long Island punk band, Gone Stereo, to explore the ever-evolving world of punk music.

Dive into the discussion as Isaac and the band dissect the resurging popularity of hardcore punk and consider its potential to reach mainstream audiences.

With bands like Turnstile and Militarie Gun leading this rejuvenation, they reflect on how contemporary punk balances its underground roots with broader appeal.

Through a series of insightful exchanges, the episode covers the unique sound of Gone Stereo, which defies conventional pop punk norms by incorporating intricate instrumentation and mature lyrical content.

Listeners are treated to a deep dive into how punk music has evolved over the decades, what keeps it relevant, and where it might be headed in the future.

Themes such as authenticity, the effects of technology on music discovery, and the inherent challenges of carving a niche in the music industry are woven seamlessly throughout the conversation.

 

Intro Music: Birds Love Filters "Colorado" - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://youtu.be/dqD_jMhZGqU⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Outro Music: Speedway Sleeper "Snail Mail" - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://youtu.be/21-vX3bBagc⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

 

Please consider purchasing some cool merch or some musical instrument accessories at our site - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://poweredbyrock.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Indie Musicians - check out the FREE DIY Rock Career Playlist here - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_2jRJsJubw&list=PL465-TazTQf5tZ9zGHitfmWQpYsbVlF99⁠⁠⁠⁠

You can also learn more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://diyrockcareer.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

 

Key Takeaways:

• The evolution of punk music is marked by the resurgence of hardcore punk, driven by bands like Turnstile and Knocked Loose, reflecting a potential shift towards mainstream acceptance.
• Gone Stereo differentiates itself from traditional pop punk bands by utilizing dual guitar strategies and intricate song structures, creating a mature sound that resonates with audiences of different ages.
• Authenticity and DIY ethics remain at the core of punk, with emerging artists encouraged to stay true to their artistic vision while navigating today's music landscape.
• The importance of live performances and connecting with local scenes are highlighted as vital for bands to gain exposure and build genuine followings.
• Challenges such as declining small venues and the necessity for musicians to adopt business strategies for sustainability are current industry hurdles.

Resources:

Check out Gone Stereo's Music and Links - ⁠https://linktr.ee/gonestereo⁠

Timeline:

00:00 Episode Intro

01:34 Gone Stereo's Approach to Punk Music is Not the Same Pop-Punk Formula

12:27 Does Gone Stereo Believe That Punk Will Be Revived by Hardcore?

29:23 Are There Other Ways Punk Music Can Achieve Mainstream Success Again?

50:14 Gone Stereo talks about their new single "Meet Me at Garvies" and upcoming show dates

58:25 Gone Stereo gives shout outs to local Long Island bands

 

Transcript:

0:00:00 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Punk music is one of my all time favorite genres of music, but even I can admit that there are certain things about punk music that I find boring. The 1990s brought about a new popularity to pop punk music, which had previously been an overlooked sub genre of punk, but since that point has been pretty much the most dominant style of punk music. That was until about three or four years ago, when a few bands in the hardcore punk scene started to make some big moves and do some massive touring bands like Knock Loose, Militarie Gun and Turnstile, shepherded in the next generation's wave of punk music, which to this point in music history hasn't really gotten its time in the spotlight. However, due to the crowds and sometimes their violent actions towards each other, and the music being more of a young crowd in general.
0:00:41 - (Isaac Kuhlman): It remains to be seen if the hardcore punk scene can bring back punk to the mainstream audiences in a new way. There's definitely been a lack of pop aesthetic in hardcore until recently, but that might just be the change it needs to bring this music subgenre to the masses. Still, there are many bands that still play melodic punk and skate punk and other fusions of punk that have been popular over the years and over the past 30 years or so, this has kind of been the safe and most popular form of punk music.
0:01:06 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Today. I'm going to be speaking with Gone Stereo from Long island, which is a band that takes the concept of pop punk to new heights with their instrumentations and harmonies. And we'll discuss what the future of punk rock is and whether or not new bands can be upstreamed by the popularity of some of the current bands that are catching on right now. Also, we'll be talking about their brand new single, which just came out, so stay tuned and find out what they have to say.
0:01:42 - (Isaac Kuhlman): All right, here we have gone stereo from Long Island, New York. It's obviously you guys are a punk band. You know, I just said in the intro that, you know, there's kind of been this surge in hardcore punk that's kind of keeping punk kind of more relevant right now. But there's always kind of been, like, pop punk, you know, going since like, you know, 1984, right? Like, it's. It's kind of been one of the more popular genres of punk.
0:02:02 - (Isaac Kuhlman): But let's talk about your guys approach to punk music because, you know, everybody has a little bit of a different take and I think you guys, even. Even for a pop punk band, as you claim, or a punk band, however you want to describe yourselves, but it's different than some pop punk, you know, you guys aren't just making the straight four bar chords, simple songs, right? You're doing a little bit extra with the songs. You're playing a little bit more strategically with the instrumentation. So what kind of sounds and styles are you guys trying to achieve when you actually go in and start creating the songs you guys make?
0:02:31 - (Chris Lynam): So, really, you know, I'm glad you kind of brought up 1994 because, you know, Matty and I and Josh and, you know, you know, Danny's a little younger over here. Mike's our age as well. But we've. We've all been kind of, like, bumming around playing this kind of music, you know, loosely pop punk for the better part of 30 years at this point. So, you know, try, you know, trying to. Trying to find new things to do in.
0:03:05 - (Chris Lynam): Within the genre is always like, you know, almost like a puzzle. One of the things that Josh and I were really doing when we wrote the three or four songs that are about to come out is we really sat down and we said, let's try to utilize two guitars in a way that you hear them. They both have distinct parts, yet Mike can anchor it down and Danny can anchor it down, and let's actually try to do that. Some of my favorite records are, I don't want to say dueling guitars because that's not really the case, but I really like the way that hot water music always use their two guitars and, you know, the offshoot, the draft or whatever, that kind of stuff, I think is really interesting and, you know, brings more to the table than just a vocal hook. You know what I mean? So which is not to dismiss the vocal hook at all.
0:04:01 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah, I think, like, even, like, you know, some of the synchronizing guitars and stuff like that, like, playing, you know, the same little bit, you know, riff here and there to, like, really juice up a guitar lead or a guitar riff is pretty cool. Um, you don't see that a lot with pop punk. You see that a lot with more, like, power pop or metal even. Right. So, like, was there a conscious decision to start playing, like, synchronized guitars and stuff like that? Just kind of bring that extra element of, like, you know, kind of power to the songs well, like, you know.
0:04:28 - (Chris Lynam): Always trying to bring it together on a big chorus or whatever like that, or at least. At least trying to fit the part together to kick something off to make it different than the previous part is always kind of the goal. And, you know, one of the things that, you know, I think, you know, Frank, who we worked with for the last couple songs really helped us with is kind of like, all right, let's do it a tiny bit different on this, you know, on this run through the verse, rather than exactly the same. And, you know, I think that, you know, when you start to incorporate that into your own songwriting, it's a nice level of maturity in what can.
0:05:05 - (Chris Lynam): And, you know, Maddie and I talk about this, and, you know, we talk about this sometimes. A level of maturity and what sometimes can be a juvenile genre.
0:05:13 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah.
0:05:15 - (Chris Lynam): You know, and I say that with love in my heart.
0:05:18 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah, that kind of segues into my next question where I was. You know, I've seen that you guys kind of describe your music as music that's for fans of, like, MxPX, the starting line, newfound glory. And to me, the big difference there is that between you guys and those bandst between, like, you know, when you talk about, like, your lyric content, you know, the singing, the guitars and all that stuff, you guys seem much, much more, much more mature and more full.
0:05:45 - (Isaac Kuhlman): And, you know, I like those bands as well, but by and large, their music is geared towards, you know, young adults and high school kids. Right? So your music definitely feels a lot more grown up. I mean, would you guys agree with that as well? And then is it because we, you know, we are grown ups. Like, we're, you know, been playing punk music for 30 years. Right.
0:06:02 - (Matty Lupinacci): I agree with you on that. And the interesting thing is, like, bands like newfound glory, they. Even their newer stuff kind of tailors to what the older stuff sounds like.
0:06:12 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Eric.
0:06:15 - (Matty Lupinacci): I guess, taking some of the influences with that band, bringing some elements here lyrically to the short, I guess I've always wrote more mature lyrics, even when I was younger, too.
0:06:32 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah, it seems. It seems weird that, you know, like, there's, you know, 50 year old people, 45 year old people still singing to, like, kids in high school. Like, they, you know, somehow have something in common with them. Like, you haven't been in high school in this century. What are you talking about?
0:06:49 - (Chris Lynam): I'm there every day.
0:06:52 - (Matty Lupinacci): So Chris is a school teacher, and some of the students actually into one of our shows, they love it, and it's awesome that they relate to this type of lyrics, this type of music.
0:07:02 - (Isaac Kuhlman): And I think that's another thing is, like, if you don't try to kind of cater to a certain crowd and you just write the music to be good music for, like, at any point, like, you know, ten years from now, it can still be good. 15 years. You know, 30 years ago, it could have been good, whatever. And you focus more on making just good music and not trying to play to some sort of, like, you know, new thing or, you know, what's rising right now.
0:07:23 - (Isaac Kuhlman): I think it stands on its own a lot better as well, I was going to say.
0:07:27 - (Danny DiGiuseppe): I think that's the nice thing about being a small band. It's funny that we mentioned newfound glory is like their new music is tailored to their old stuff, almost because they have that expectation from their existing fan base. So being someone who has been around as long is that we can kind of do whatever feels right for us.
0:07:43 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah. And I think there's how they always say, like, when an actor gets big for being a comedian or whatever, they get typecast as a certain thing. That's very true for bands, right? Like, you can't all of a sudden change your genre or change your sound because then everybody's like, what the hell is this? Like, this isn't what you guys make. It seems weird, though, because when Jim Carrey, for example, played in the Truman show or some of his more dramatic stuff, you're like, he's great at this. Why can't he go and do this? So why can't gon stero be a Prague metal band? Right? It doesn't make sense. You can't just switch it up.
0:08:18 - (Mike Drinkwalter): Yeah, I like.
0:08:21 - (Matty Lupinacci): I like pushing the envelope, you know, different sounds. I like how the band of fall writing style, bringing Danny aboard, just. I mentioned before, like, those metal style riffs that you don't hear a lot. Like, I. Let's get going. So just bringing it into this book, which just sounds. Sounds like more than me.
0:08:50 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah. And, you know, talking about, like, pop punk as a genre, like I was saying, you know, it's not one of those genres that you definitely really hear. You know, people. People being really good musicians in. Right. It's usually like, the worst musicians are pop punk artists because it's three chords, four chords, and then, you know, the first chorus, verse, chorus, verse, chorus, whatever. Right. I usually. That's kind of the way to make a pop pop. A pop punk song.
0:09:14 - (Isaac Kuhlman): But I think you guys obviously do take it to a next level, like you said, with some, you know, synchronized guitars, you know, solos, metal riffs, all that stuff. Kind of like, I remember when. When some 41 came out and they were playing metal and it was like, pop punk, and you're like, how is that pop punk? That's definitely like metal at mo at most times, right? But it was definitely pop punk because of the way they sang on the way they structured a song.
0:09:34 - (Isaac Kuhlman): But everything about it was metal. Like, the drums were metal, the. The guitars were metal, the bass was metal, and it was just the singing and the lyrical content was pop punk. So do you think that there's, like, maybe a way to describe pop punk when it's not simple pop punk? What would be the label that you would use to talk about it if it's elevated in that kind of way where it's actually, like, more talented pop punk? Do you think that there should be or maybe could be a new label for that?
0:10:02 - (Chris Lynam): Yeah, sorry. Just give me r1 quick. One of the things I'm going to be annoying and bring up shakespeare really quick. You know what I mean? And, you know, a sonnet has rules that. That apply to it. You know, there's a frame into which he fit that kind of, like, you know, metaphor of beauty. However you want to talk about it, you know, I'll nerd out on that forever. But, you know, did it make. Did it create a new genre of poetry? I don't really know, but it definitely is. Like, that's a poem, but it's a fucking awesome poem. You know what I mean?
0:10:39 - (Chris Lynam): So I don't know. That's kind of how I'm looking at it a little bit, you know, trying to do the. Write the best song that we can, you know, always. That's always been it, you know?
0:10:48 - (Danny DiGiuseppe): Yeah, I think you superseded my point in saying that sometimes it almost doesn't matter. Like, I come more from the progressive and the middle world than the punk world. Yeah, it's like there's so many subgenres that it's almost to a point where it doesn't matter. You know, every band kind of has their own flavor, their own version of it, and it's. It's okay to defy those labels as long as, like Chris said, you're making the best version of whatever it is that you personally can make.
0:11:14 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah, it's. It's crazy. Cause when I hear people talk about, like, oh, this isn't that kind of metal. It's this metal. I'm like, what's the difference? I'm like, what's the difference between death metal, thrash metal, all these other ones? I'm like, they'll sound exactly the same to me. This is the singer Michael. So, yeah, I think it's just one of those things that, like, just to kind of frame your guys's music as somebody who hasn't heard it before, I wouldn't put it in, like, a blink. One, e, two, or, you know. You know, you know, like a newfound glory style. I'd say it's maybe more like, yeah, like hot water music or I don't know, like there's. There's other bands that definitely, you know, have the kind of sound that you guys have. It's just most of them don't get to the point where they're like incredibly famous because they decided to play that way.
0:11:57 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Well after pop punk became famous, right. It was like, oh yeah, now that the genre is dead, everybody can be really good musicians in this genre. What happened? Where were they all in the nineties?
0:12:07 - (Matty Lupinacci): I love when other people, I always say, oh, well, yeah, we're similar to bring out. I love listening to what other people think genre is. It'd be interesting. Just let other people just make the genre optimus as much.
0:12:36 - (Isaac Kuhlman): So now let's talk about, obviously the rise of hardcore because this is about the only genre that of punk music specifically that hasn't really had its heyday. So, you know, the new wave of punk seems to be getting the most traction. Again, like I said, is hardcore. You got bands like Turnstile, military gun, knock loose, a lot of other bands coming up. Each of these, you know, bands and each of these kinds of. Or everybody in this kind of genre has different various levels of intensity. Like, turnstile is not the same as lock loose, right? Like, those are two different bands in the same genre or respectively the same genre, but they all kind of still fit together. But what's your guys take on the rise of hardcore punk? And why is it kind of becoming the.
0:13:18 - (Isaac Kuhlman): I mean, even for rock music, it's kind of like becoming quickly like the most relevant, I guess, rock music genre right now.
0:13:25 - (Chris Lynam): I think maybe. I think it has to do with the idea. I don't want to say each thing has to be a little bit heavier, more extreme. That's because that's not the right. That's not the right thing because a lot of those bands have like killer hooks as well in their. In their vocal melodies and their riffs. But, you know, it's. Is it the next logical extension of like newfound Glory plus Blink 182, you know, crossed with a little bit of like, John Feldman production?
0:14:00 - (Chris Lynam): Does that. Is that what that turns into? And, you know, I don't really know. I think those are all like positive things. And then, you know, it's up to the kind of the audience to decide. That's kind of my take on it.
0:14:12 - (Danny DiGiuseppe): Yeah, I think in general, music has just trended to become a little bit more heavier with the advent of more. All the different kinds of medals that have come out from gent to progressive and everything in between. So I think, yeah, I think punk has maybe gone the same way in a general sense that we've in this genre have gone a little bit heavier as the trend has gone a little bit heavier.
0:14:35 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah.
0:14:35 - (Chris Lynam): Or is it. Yeah, or is it hardcore incorporating like the, you know, the, the cool, poppy part of pop punk into, you know, into that? I mean, but then again, like, I listened to start today by the gorilla biscuits which is what, like mid to late eighties came out and, you know, there's, there's all that kind of, you know, layers of history involved, I guess you could say.
0:15:01 - (Isaac Kuhlman): The music itself, I think kind of is that progression of punk music. But hardcore hasn't been gone and it never was. Like, it's not like it just created, right? Like it's been in the scene of punk music for years. But for whatever reason in the eighties it didn't become mainstream. Even in the nineties when pop punk became biggest, hardcore didn't become a mainstream thing. You know, I think. I think maybe there's some acceptance of it at older ages for us now because we grew up as, you know, punk loving fans but at the same time we didn't want to beat the shit out of each other. Like the kids these days are like, you know, and they're just thrashing around and kicking and not even aiming where they're swinging, right.
0:15:41 - (Isaac Kuhlman): But I think maybe there is that somewhat of an acceptance going from like, you know, like obviously in the fifties, like Elvis was risque, right? Like controversial. Like, you can't put him on tv. Like, what are you talking about? Dude is just like dancing. That's ridiculous. But then it was like, you know, the nineties, were they ready for hardcore to be, you know, mainstream or whatever. Maybe it's finally time, 30 years after that explosion that hardcore could be the thing again.
0:16:06 - (Isaac Kuhlman): It's one of those things. This genre has been around but I think it's finally getting its time. And I think there is that level of, you know, and I don't like to say this because with every bandaid, uh, it's not the same, right. But like, I feel like if there's that one van that has, you know, a decent looking person as their front person, right, uh, they're just not like a hideous human being, then all of a sudden that can elevate a genre, right? Like, you know, blink one, a two, help the, the pop. Pop punk. And, you know, because a lot of pop punk bands were just guys, right? Like I mean, not saying that they give that blink, went to supermodels, but they're good looking dudes. Like, they're taking their clothes off and chicks are like, yes, now we can finally like pop punk music, too, right?
0:16:46 - (Isaac Kuhlman): So maybe turnstile helps that. Maybe military gun helps that in a way that kind of incorporates not having just, like, a bunch of, like, older dudes yelling into a microphone. Right? So I don't know. Did you have any kind of thoughts on that, Mike?
0:17:01 - (Mike Drinkwalter): Well, first of all, we're a bunch of handsome dudes, so we. Yeah, no, I agree. I think, you know, I don't know that hardcore ever left, to your point. I think that, you know, myself, I know that that was one of my earliest influences, to be honest. Probably before getting into, you know, whatever we're dubbing pop punk at this point, but, yeah, no, I think 100% aesthetics has a lot to do with it. I think that, you know, people like the cute boys, so.
0:17:39 - (Mike Drinkwalter): And if they can scream loud and be heavy, it's even cooler, I guess.
0:17:43 - (Isaac Kuhlman): I don't know. Well, what if.
0:17:48 - (Chris Lynam): What if, um, here's just one other thing. What if those are just the kids that are really good at, like, tick tock and interneting? You know what I mean? Like, and, like, using the technology that we're kind of dinosaurs at at this point, like, to their advantage in the best possible way that, you know, why does something go viral? I don't know. I. I don't know. Is it that. Is there something to that, too?
0:18:16 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah, and I can agree. Like, TikTok seems to be one of these, you know, social media platforms where somebody can literally become famous overnight and change their music career. Does that mean that they're always going to be successfully successful long term? Probably not, but they can go from nothing to somebody in a very short period of time. Right. Instagram kind of did that, but it seems like once the pandemic came and TikTok was, like, the most relevant social media platform for kids under, like, 25, then it seems like that kind of became this new trigger for becoming viral and becoming famous. And it's like, one thing I've noticed is, like, these bands that have, or even just artists that have, you know, 3 million tick tock followers, and then they go and play show and they can't fill a 200 seat, you know, you know, venue, and it's like, well, yeah, because they didn't want to come see you. Like, they can watch you online. You put everything that you do on there, and it's like, more intimate and personal.
0:19:15 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Now they have to drive somewhere, pay money to go see you. Most of the time, they're not going to do that, right? So it kind of has that flip side of the coin. Like, Internet fame doesn't seem to translate to financial success unless there's something to truly back it up. So kind of in the same vein as you. You can be a good looking guy, but if your band sucks, it's not going to matter, right? Or vice versa. If your band's great and you're a bunch of ugly dudes, you still might be unsuccessful, whatever, right?
0:19:40 - (Isaac Kuhlman): But, you know, do you think that maybe. And I kind of wrote a little joke in here for the little outline, but I was saying, like, you know, when kids are out there, like, moshing, because that's the other part of it, right? It's got to be played live for kids to kind of understand how this genre and how this music is reflecting upon their emotional and concert going experience, right? So they're out there kicking and punching and don't seem to care.
0:20:04 - (Isaac Kuhlman): You know, is this kind of what happens when kids eat too many tide pods? Or is this just a form of expression, like the new fight club sentiment from the late nineties?
0:20:13 - (Mike Drinkwalter): You know, if you think about it, this. What's going on the world. And, you know, there's a lot of things that probably are triggering kids to need to take out some aggression, right. In some capacity. And to me, that's. It's not a bad way to do it. I think there's other ways that could be much, much worse. But, yeah, I don't know. I don't know.
0:20:38 - (Isaac Kuhlman): And.
0:20:38 - (Mike Drinkwalter): Yeah, and then the tide pods, too.
0:20:40 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah, probably.
0:20:43 - (Matty Lupinacci): I gave up on those a long time.
0:20:47 - (Chris Lynam): Even. Even still, like, for. Since we even started 30 years ago, Maddie, kids have been. And, Mike, you were in a different part of the state, but kids were gathering in shady places and doing risky things in front of their friends. Bandst, whatever those risky things were jumping off of whatever the fuck was there. Or, you know. So I guess now it's just filmed all the time. And I say that to my students, like.
0:21:19 - (Chris Lynam): Like, oh, shit. Like, if there was a. There was a digital camera there in the 1990s and basement shows, we probably played together. Maddie, do I want anybody seeing that footage, or would I be super famous now because of it?
0:21:34 - (Danny DiGiuseppe): You know what I mean?
0:21:34 - (Chris Lynam): I don't know.
0:21:40 - (Isaac Kuhlman): You're talking, Mike, about, like, what's going on in the world, right? Like, you know, there's a lot of protests about, like, Palestine and Israel and a lot of other stuff, you know, not just that, but, you know, politics as well. And, you know, it's. I think it is one of the. Even though they're like fake fighting essentially, or pseudo fighting, even though they might hit each other, it feels like that's safer than them going out and, you know, actually expressing their anger in a way that could be very violent or very dangerous for people who aren't expecting it. Right. Like going out and mugging people or, you know, whatever. I'm not saying punk rock leads to mugging people, but I think that it's kind of the opposite. Right? Like punk rock keeps people from mugging people. So I think there's. There's kind of that. I think everybody needs a form of release for whatever anxieties and angst and emotional trauma that they might have. And, yeah, I think music is usually a good, good avenue even if you are dancing like a craze person out there. Right.
0:22:34 - (Matty Lupinacci): Couldn't agree with you more.
0:22:39 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Now, do you think that the next step for hardcore is that it actually has the ability to get popular enough to where, like mainstream? It's like when one band like Turnstile comes up, do you think that there will be a kind of like Whirlwind effect where these other bands start up streaming with them and it actually becomes like a pretty popular genre? I know there's. I know tons of, you know, hardcore bands, but it's.
0:23:02 - (Isaac Kuhlman): I haven't seen many of them getting the attention. I mean, military gun might be the second biggest one right now and they're not really a hardcore band to be honest with you. They just. They jokingly called themselves that and now they kind of are lumped in as hardcore. But I think those turnstile and military gun might be the two biggest. But I don't see the genre being swept up yet. And maybe it's because Turnstile has to release yet another album or, you know, military guns released two in two years. Turnstile, I think, said one in like three years.
0:23:28 - (Isaac Kuhlman): And the one before that was like five years before that. So I don't know if they like, you know, when blink one a two released enema the state, it was like, boom. Now, now this big second wave of pop punk all of a sudden hit again. Do you think that might happen if Turnstile releases another album and other bands start getting upstreamed with them?
0:23:44 - (Mike Drinkwalter): Yeah.
0:23:44 - (Matty Lupinacci): So it's always possible.
0:23:46 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah.
0:23:46 - (Matty Lupinacci): I mean, the thing is, like you said before, like, you know, what are they? What's the crowd they're catering to older, like us or, you know, is the younger fan gonna want to listen to that, or are they seeking something else? You know, so I really don't know.
0:24:04 - (Mike Drinkwalter): I think popular is subject to, you know, interpretation, to Chris's point. Well, as you guys are saying, you have, like, a quarter of a million followers and then have 20 people show up at your show.
0:24:18 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah.
0:24:19 - (Mike Drinkwalter): So, like, what is popular? Is popular a quarter of a million followers, or is it having, you know, 400 people show up at your show?
0:24:27 - (Matty Lupinacci): Right.
0:24:27 - (Mike Drinkwalter): Like, the days of MTV popularity are gone? I think so. So, really, what is it? Is it, like, what you're selling? Is it. What. How many people are following you and. Yeah, you know, it's all up to interpretation.
0:24:43 - (Matty Lupinacci): On Long island alone, you know, very, very popular hardcore scene here, most of all the hardcore shows always sell out. So, you know, it's possible. So I can see it not, you know, throughout the rest of the world country.
0:25:03 - (Chris Lynam): So to Maddie. To Maddie's point again, you know, there are a number of bands that are, I think, kind of, you know, not far behind. Bands like military gun in terms of popularity, because they're starting to open shows for all those bands. The guys in standstill, I mean, pain of truth was like a pandemic project for one of the other LIHC guys that they're playing all over the world now. They just opened an arena. An arena tour for I can't remember who, but they just opened an arena tour.
0:25:40 - (Chris Lynam): Standstill is touring all over the place, going to Japan. What are some of the other, you know, who's up?
0:25:49 - (Matty Lupinacci): Yeah, pretty big now.
0:25:51 - (Isaac Kuhlman): They're also so.
0:25:52 - (Chris Lynam): I mean, they're.
0:25:53 - (Isaac Kuhlman): They're.
0:25:54 - (Chris Lynam): If you see video of their shows, it's all crazy.
0:25:57 - (Isaac Kuhlman): I.
0:25:57 - (Chris Lynam): You know, what. What the ceiling is. Who knows? Who knows, you know, is, do they have that crossover hook that is going to get everybody? Because that's really. Again, it always are the songs, is it? It's always the things that are super, super catchy, that.
0:26:11 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah, you know, and I think that's a good point because, like you were saying, mike, as well, you know, MTV days are gone. MTV doesn't even play music anymore. It's like 24 hours of ridiculousness. It's like, I don't know what's going on. I don't. I don't get it. Like, every time I turn on, it's just straight 24 hours of that. But, yeah, I think that, you know, even radio. Right. Radio doesn't have the translation of success that it used to. Like, if you were on radio back in the nineties, that was a big break. For you right now, it's like, who gives a shit if you're on the radio? Like, like what they play now is like, I don't want to listen to the radio, right. So, like, if they actually played good music, maybe I would listen to the radio more. But streaming is way more popular than the radio. So, you know, even radio stations are basically streaming just to terrestrial audiences, right through an antenna instead of couldn't through your computer. So it is kind of hard to define that success. But I think typically, you know, what we would say is what's successful is how much money do you generate from your music, right. I think that kind of translates to, can you live off your music? Can you actually go out and live a comfortable life and without having a second job, right. So I think if more bands could do that, even if it's hardcore punk, you know, great. I think, you know, maybe one day rock music will make a comeback to the point where people can be in bands and pay their bills by just playing the music that they actually play, right. So to me, that's why I do this podcast. That's why have guys like you come on and talk about punk music. Because it's like, has everybody forgotten that punk music still really good or what the hell's going on? Like, it's been good for 30, well, 50 years.
0:27:47 - (Isaac Kuhlman): And people just forget that it's been around that long. And then they kind of weave in and out of the popularity like the popular bands of the times. And it's like, oh, well, now I don't have to listen to it for another decade. You're like, okay. It's like, what the hell's going on? But yeah, I think when I talk about successful, popular, whatever you want to say it is, yeah, I mean, if you have 3 million followers on YouTube, can you turn that into monetary compensation? Right? Like, can you turn your TikTok into something that makes money? And most people don't know how to do that. Most people are like, well, ive got a lot of followers. Okay, well, how does that help you? Can you sell a record? Can you sell, you know, can you do advertisements? Can you license, you know, other peoples products? I dont know, but like, theres, theres ways you could make money from it, obviously.
0:28:30 - (Isaac Kuhlman): And I think thats where maybe the next wave of music or musicians might go is Patreon and doing all these things where they can actually have subscribers that pay them a monthly fee so that they dont have to go out and get a job. Right. I think for bands these days, you know, that, like twitch. Live streams and stuff like that are pretty big, I think. I'm not saying that they're. They're going to make a lot of money from it, but I think it's a big concept that if you start doing it and do it well, you know, four, five, six years, maybe that's going to be the thing that keeps people, you know, from having to get jobs, is just doing stuff on the Internet, right? So it'd be interesting to see how that pans out. But everybody's waiting for the next, hey, how do you become famous again? How do you become successful again? What's the next blueprint? Because record labels don't give a shit about you until you actually have the business rolling, right? And by then it's like, well, do we need you? Because we already have the business. Like, we already make the money.
0:29:31 - (Isaac Kuhlman): I think, you know, the other parts of the, you know, like punk becoming mainstream again or having success again is in reality, a lot of punk bands have to face that. It's very difficult to bring something fresh and new to a genre that kind of perfected itself 30 years ago, right? Like, pop punk was so big in the nineties that everywhere you looked, you saw a band playing that style of music and playing it really well and becoming very successful at it.
0:29:59 - (Isaac Kuhlman): So you guys even have to compare yourselves in some way to a lot of the bands in the nineties. You don't even get to say, like, hey, I. We're a lot like this band from five years ago or this band that's currently popular because no one would know who you're talking about, right? You'd be like, I don't know who that is. What do you mean? Like copyrights? I don't know. Like, you guys sound like the copyrights, but who the hell would know who the copyrights are unless they're actually a fan of the other. Of the band, right?
0:30:23 - (Isaac Kuhlman): So do you feel like you're pushing a boulder uphill in the sense that fans seem to only want to hear pop music, pop punk music from already well known bands?
0:30:31 - (Matty Lupinacci): I don't think so. I don't know how anybody else.
0:30:33 - (Mike Drinkwalter): I think there's a place for what we do. I don't know that's necessarily mass appeal at the moment, but I definitely think there's a place for it. I think there's people in our. It's interesting, right? Because we've got people in our demographic, like dudes pushing 50, dad types. But then we also see, like, you know, younger people starting to, like, come on into it and just really relating to that. So I think there's hope, but, yeah, I'd say it's like pushing a medium sized boulder up a hill.
0:31:11 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah, I think there's always a boulder up a hill. With rock music in general right now.
0:31:16 - (Danny DiGiuseppe): The thing that's difficult is getting people to come out and see something that they might not necessarily know. Like, and this is the thing. Like, people are going to go see the bands that they've known since the nineties because it's already a part of their life. They have and establish relationship with their music. It means something to them. And the boulder that we're pushing up the hill is getting people to come out and try something new, you know, to spend money to see a show for people that they haven't seen and to discover something and to take a chance on it.
0:31:45 - (Danny DiGiuseppe): And I think that's wherein the boulder lies is. That's a difficulty.
0:31:50 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah, I always say that comfortable people are the hardest to move, right? Like, try to get somebody off the couch. They're comfortable. Like, they're just like, like, come on, let's go. Let's get off the couch. Let's go see a show. And they're like, nah, I already know what I like. I don't need to like anything new. Like, those are the worst kinds of people to, like, try to even have a conversation with because they don't want to change their mind about anything. So I totally don't think that's.
0:32:12 - (Matty Lupinacci): That's where I feel like technology also arts too, because, like, you know, Chris's point for everybody videos now, everything. You only want to leave your house. You can just go on TikTok or YouTube and type in Bon stereo and you see the show instead of going there. Even, like, the concerts I've been to recently, and everyone has a phone up recording, like, not really enjoying the actual experience.
0:32:36 - (Matty Lupinacci): Like how we did. Like, we used to go back in the day with no phones. We just like that.
0:32:42 - (Danny DiGiuseppe): And I even catch myself doing it. I've catch caught myself saying, oh, yeah, they put on a great live show. I've seen it on the Internet, and I've never seen them live. So how do I know? How do I know what I'm gonna go see? And I've never seen it myself.
0:33:00 - (Matty Lupinacci): And to your point, Danny, like, another big thing on Long island is loads of COVID bands. Like, they always do. Well, they do and they do. Yeah, because like I said, they cater to the songs they already know. Like, how would he get them to come out, listen, something original or new. Just.
0:33:23 - (Isaac Kuhlman): I once had a boss business partner tell me, he's like, I don't even understand why people play their own music. Why don't they just all play cover songs? That's what people want to hear. I was like, where the fuck do you think the COVID song originally came from? They had to write an original song, you dickhead.
0:33:37 - (Danny DiGiuseppe): I think what makes it even more difficult, to a degree, too, is that the small venue is rapidly being killed off. Like, we just had a dearth of popular venues close in Long Island, New York City in the last couple of months. Places that bands like us can go and play. We lost like, four or five of them almost all at the same time. And that makes it even harder to get people because now you have less venues. That means less acts can be there, and those venues are going to want to be able to stay open to make the money. So what are they going to do?
0:34:09 - (Danny DiGiuseppe): Are they going to take a chance on a band that's original or go with a sure shot of someone that already plays something that's established?
0:34:16 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah. And especially, I always bring this up about DJ's. Right? Because you can hire a DJ that just plays popular music, pay that one person, like, $200, or you have to, you know, that person can make dollar 200 for themselves. Or, like, a band of five people have to go and try to make the $200 and split it five ways. And it's like, does this even make sense anymore? Is this financially, like, responsible in any way? Like, why are we still doing this?
0:34:40 - (Chris Lynam): It's never been financially. Why do you think we all have jobs?
0:34:49 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Well, yeah, I was just, you know, it's crazy that, like, you know, the way that music, the music industry has gone, it's. It is. It's a rival for venues. It's a rival for people's attention. It's a rival for, you know, technology. Like you said, a lot of these things make it very difficult to kind of crack the. The code on. How the hell do you get somebody to pay attention to you anymore and make them stick around, right? Because, like, sure, they can listen to a song once, but are they going to stick around for another song, another launch, another release, you know, whatever, right? So it is kind of that weird part of being successful that most people just.
0:35:22 - (Isaac Kuhlman): I just, I guess they just. Either they get impatient or they get frustrated, and most people just won't do it for a very long time. But then the ones that stick around usually get some modicum of success, like being able to tour, being able to go on the road, you know, play in festivals and stuff like that. There's. There's a certain level of, you know, success in that, too. Like, you don't have to necessarily be, you know, rich and famous, but you can at least be, well, more well known than you were. You could be regionally well known or nationally well known or whatever, right? So I think there's some level of that, too.
0:35:55 - (Isaac Kuhlman): I'm just getting out there. Being. Being around other bands is pretty helpful. And I know you guys play shows. Obviously you got the bitters and distractions something bitter shirts. These are. These are other bands. I think they're both Long island bands, right? I know bitters and distraction is. So that's another thing. Just like networking with other bands to get in there, something better.
0:36:13 - (Matty Lupinacci): It's like more queens, I think. I think Queens in Long Island.
0:36:16 - (Danny DiGiuseppe): I mean, it's gotcha geographically Long island. So if. If anyone in Queens would. People in Queens will like, we just started a fight that a lot of people don't recognize by saying that Queens is part of Long island because them are fighting words.
0:36:35 - (Isaac Kuhlman): So what do you guys think it will take for up and coming bands to kind of break through to a wider audience? Is it this technology? Is it, you know, you know, just virality? Or is it. Do you think that fans will actually come around? Or do you believe that pop punk is just going to have to live with the fact that this genre is more for the love of music than making it a career from now on?
0:36:53 - (Matty Lupinacci): I can't imagine, like, how it is now being older, being younger. You know, I remember when I was younger, I'd be on the road, and six months out of the year, it's like, I just been left six months, and it's like handling my cd on the streets. $510 and then, you know, no guarantee. Sometimes venues, but, like, getting out there and hustling, you know, lately, you see, like, nowadays bands go out, say they're going on tour. It's like five shows.
0:37:28 - (Matty Lupinacci): I mean, it's still a tour, but it's not real tour. How much money are you really making? You know, I don't think fans make a lot of money these days, whether. Whatever genre it is, without getting out there and actually doing anything about it. But, you know, yeah, it's just thinking for us.
0:37:47 - (Danny DiGiuseppe): I also.
0:37:47 - (Chris Lynam): I also think that maybe that that be. That became the model really quick, doing those quick four or five show things because it is unsustainable to do a whole month because who the fuck is gonna go to who's like. Like, I love nostalgia, but who's gonna show up to nostalgia on Tuesday to see original music?
0:38:06 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah.
0:38:06 - (Chris Lynam): You know what I mean?
0:38:07 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Like Michigan or.
0:38:10 - (Chris Lynam): Exactly. And, like, so you think about that kind of thing, and it totally makes sense for a band like us to try to get like a Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday thing. Hopefully Matt Nance on this thing, get to fucking work on Monday morning. But, like, you know, like. But like, something like that, I think might be a little bit more financially viable. I don't know. I don't know. Because the revenue stream for album sales is no longer there. There's no longer any of that other kind of stuff. So that's only the way I saw it. But I could be. I could be wrong because what the hell do I know?
0:38:41 - (Chris Lynam): Yeah, I'm going to work tomorrow morning.
0:38:45 - (Mike Drinkwalter): I think we live in a. We're going to get soap boxy. I think we live in a culture, a society that undervalues art in general, that artists are called starving artists because it's not a place that allows a form to make a living off of it unless you sort of sell yourself out. Right? Like, I mean, if you think about. If you really think about it, I mean, the guys who aren't banking and all that other shit, other guys making money and the people are, you know, kind of putting their nose to the grindstone and getting out there and creating things aren't having to scrape to make a living. So I think it's a bigger sort of commentary on what is valued in our country.
0:39:32 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah, I definitely think that's true. Because even if you talk to a venue owner, like, they're like, I could just play the radio instead of hiring you guys, right? Like, it's like people will come for a band. Like, they'll like if you. If you consistently play live music and it's good live music, even if it's unknown live music, people will come to a bar that is known for live music and pay a cover and, you know, hang out there for a couple hours. So, yes, the band should be compensated accordingly. Right? Like, there's a place here in Las Vegas called Red Dwarf, which is a really cool tiki bar, and they actually, you know, they don't cover. They don't charge a cover, but they consistently have live music. And that's one of the more popular bars in town. They don't even have gambling in that. In that bar, which is very rare for a bar in Las Vegas, because almost everybody has to make money off of their gambling to stay open.
0:40:18 - (Isaac Kuhlman): They don't do that, but they consistently have live music, and people show up. Like, there will be, you know, 65 people in there on a Thursday or a Wednesday or even a Sunday night just to watch bands playing. It's like, that's awesome. Like, it took a while for it to get to a point where, like, people were showing up consistently. But I think that, you know, you have to have a venue owner who knows that this is actually something that's valuable, right? And, like, the artists themselves have a story to tell, and that's their music, right? Like, you know, a painter can tell, you know, can put something on a canvas, and we have no idea what the hell they're trying to say. But in music, they're literally saying. We're saying out loud, like, this is what we're trying to say. Like, you can hear the words, right? Like, as long as you agree with that, you can have a good time, right?
0:41:00 - (Isaac Kuhlman): So I think you're right. Like, you know, it's not just venue owners that devalue it, obviously, but that's one of the other key problems is, like, venues and venue owners actually being willing to commit to a long term business model of playing live music in their facilities, right? Because a lot of them will be like, well, I don't want to drive away the dinner crowd. It's like, fuck are you talking about?
0:41:22 - (Mike Drinkwalter): We've seen that. Well, even, like, Nashville, right? You think that place has been born and bred on musicians and talent? I was there last year and speaking with musicians who are killing it, like, the most talented people I've ever seen in the world.
0:41:38 - (Isaac Kuhlman): They're.
0:41:38 - (Mike Drinkwalter): They're like, yeah, we work on tips. We work on tips, right? So even the venue owners, they're the ones raking in, you know, all the people buying the booze, but it's dependent upon the. The patrons to pay the band for the experience they have. So they've created this sort of ecosystem that is not dependent on the venues or the owners there. It's dependent on the people coming into the venues, and it's like dangling Carrot, right, for these bands. Like, we got to do this to get big.
0:42:10 - (Mike Drinkwalter): And they're in this hamster with, I.
0:42:11 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Think what you're talking about is, you know, play that. You know, play the organ, little monkey.
0:42:15 - (Danny DiGiuseppe): I think what you're talking about is. There's the debate I was watching. I think it was. I don't know if anyone knows Rainn Wilson, the actor. He has his own podcast, and he was interviewing Bryan Cranston. They were talking about this, it's like. And Brian Cranston was saying, like, when I started out, I did everything I could to get noticed, to get seen, and I did all these things that aren't who I am, and I never got seen until I started doing who I am and my own thing.
0:42:39 - (Danny DiGiuseppe): And I think it's what you're starting to see is a shift in more bands populating that do it yourself model, because that seems to be the only way to do it sustainably, because the more original you can be and the more successful you could be, where you're not sharing costs and you're not sharing profits. That seems to be the model I just saw. And this is going to be the least punk rock thing I'll say in this podcast. I saw the band Lawrence the other night, and they're sort of like a soul, r and b kind of funk band, but they are 100% diy.
0:43:18 - (Danny DiGiuseppe): And one of the things they were talking about is, like, we're a band that, you know, 510 years ago, we were playing college, you know, house parties. And, you know, everyone in the band has a different job. Like the saxophone players, the tour manager, the drummer does all the merch. Everyone does something, and they share all the responsibilities, and that means that the band does not have to share profits with anyone. And, you know, they just sold out Radio City musical, and that seems to be the model. And they're doing something original and unique, like it's derivative of a genre, but they have something that stands out in who their lead singers are.
0:43:50 - (Danny DiGiuseppe): So it seems to be like bands today. You kind of have to speak your own truth. You have to be who you are and not try to fit a mold. And then it seems to be like, that do it yourself model is the only way that you don't get. I don't want to say screwed out of, but you don't get you're able to retain everything that you make.
0:44:08 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah. And I think it's very interesting now that when you want to start a band, you also have to start a business. Right? Like, it didn't used to be that way. Like, you could just be in a band for, like, five years, and then if you got signed, then you would have, like, some sort of business set up. Right. But now it's like, well, in order to eliminate expenses, you know, stop paying taxes on things so that we actually are putting into the band. Like, we have to set up an LLC. Like, pretty much right away. It's like, that's crazy. Like, that never even used to be a consideration for bans back in the nineties. Like, now it's like, yes, I don't want to have to pay this all out of pocket. I want it to be an expense of the band, which is for the band. Right. And then if you put gas in the tank, okay, that's a band expense. We got to make that back.
0:44:45 - (Isaac Kuhlman): And so you also have to find band members who can play instruments and sing and write and all that stuff. But you also have to sit there and go, like, what are your other talents? Like, do you know how to do accounting? Do you know anything about how to.
0:44:57 - (Danny DiGiuseppe): Drop a legal document?
0:45:03 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah, it's just very interesting because, you know, like, a lot of the things that, you know, I was in a punk band when I was in high school never would have even considered, like, oh, you made money? Like, do you have to pay tax on it? Wouldn't even cross my mind. Like, I think we made, like, a couple hundred dollars in the, you know, year that we were a band. I'm like, would have never considered, like, that's income. Like, that's.
0:45:22 - (Isaac Kuhlman): That's a, that's the most laughable form of income. But, like, if you're, you know, talking about, like, as an adult, you have a side project and it's a band and you're spending, you know, $4,000 on it to operate and you're only making $2,000, well, you legally want to have those taxes, right, written out or those expenses written off for taxes, right. So, like, yeah, makes sense. And then obviously, if you do make money, you don't want to get audited and then go to prison. So you got to pay the taxes on it. But, um, I don't know why we started talking about taxes, but, you know, it's one of those things.
0:45:51 - (Chris Lynam): I just know. I just decided I'm going to buy more guitars and fucking charge them to the band.
0:45:54 - (Isaac Kuhlman): So here we go. I need this one. It's only $2500. Come on. Prince touched it once. I'm good. Let's go. Well, kind of the last question on this before we kind of talk about a little bit more about you guys. But do you think that punk music being popular goes against its own ethos, as so many gatekeepers pointed out back when it exploded in nineties? You know, punk isn't about being famous or popular or, you know, making a lot of money.
0:46:25 - (Isaac Kuhlman): It is, like you said, danny, it is very diy culture. Right? Like, from the inception of punk, it was like, do it yourself. Get people around you to kind of buy in, you know, create zines and all these other things that, like, you know, spread the community and the word, obviously, as, you know, older, you know, I'm 42. I know you guys are around that age or a little older as well. Not everybody's the same age, obviously, but, you know, we're not going to start our own zine to, like, you know, uprooted and create a new cultural identity inside of Long island or Las Vegas punk music, but there are kids out there that are doing it, right? So, like, I think there is a way to fit the new, the newer bands and stuff like that to match with the kind of older bands and, like, have them cross over. So that way it does create a bigger community. Right. Do you think, you know, that is kind of the new success, or is it really just like, hopefully somebody's going to break it big on radio and then everybody else kind of follows through a little boat?
0:47:21 - (Isaac Kuhlman): I think. I think if the radio or whatever version of that, like, whatever thing makes people successful and can upstream people, if it is tick tock, if it is Instagram, if somebody does that for pop punk, I think, you know, everybody said, oh, machine Gun Kelly is bringing pop punk back. I'm like, name one other artist that came up with him. Like, he didn't bring back anything. He just made a different album and put it and said it was pop punk. I was like, he was there to make money for himself. He wasn't there to try to help a genre or play with punk bands, right? He was just like, I'm gonna do something different. If you don't like it, suck it, I guess. But you're gonna buy 10 million of these copies of this album or whatever.
0:47:59 - (Isaac Kuhlman): But do you guys think it's more. It's still gonna be dIy until something kind of lottery style kind of breaks again?
0:48:07 - (Mike Drinkwalter): I do. I do.
0:48:09 - (Chris Lynam): I tend to think that everything is really fractured now. It's cool because, you know, I think of. Think of, like, 15 different genres that have the word, like, lo fi in it. You know what I mean? You have lo fi new wave, lo fi synth pop new wave, lo fi bedroom synth, pop new wave, you know what I mean? And they're all different things. And are you. And I think you said it earlier, like, are you, like, living your truth? Are you. Are you a putting.
0:48:41 - (Chris Lynam): Are you putting your authentic self down? And I'm going to say tape? And I know it's fucking not tape anymore. Like, are you putting it down on tape? Are you being honest? And I think that that's what, like, is behind that whole sellout bullshit in the nineties is there was this idea that people would have to be dishonest to find success. Not that success found the genre, because that's kind of like, you know, in retrospect, probably what happened. You know, success found the genre, not.
0:49:12 - (Chris Lynam): Those bands didn't go out. Like, I feel like, let's go be popular. They wanted to play music and. And, you know, there's a. I think Fat Mike had a, you know, a quote. They didn't. They didn't change.
0:49:26 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Like, they're just.
0:49:26 - (Chris Lynam): Their. Their music became popular. People just started liking what they did. Yeah, it makes sense to me, you know?
0:49:33 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah. And I. And I call that. The difference between that is when you sell out, you do something that you wouldn't normally do for money, but when you do the same thing and get famous, that's called other people buying in. So selling out versus buying in, right? Yeah, yeah.
0:49:46 - (Chris Lynam): It's called success. You know, that's what it is. It's, you know.
0:49:50 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah.
0:49:50 - (Chris Lynam): Do what you love and make a couple bucks. Why not?
0:49:53 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah. I mean, if Portugal, the man goes out and does a taco Bell commercial, and all I have to do is license the music that they already created, who gives a shit? Like, go out and make a million dollars from Taco Bell. But if you have to make a taco Bell jingle, maybe don't do that.
0:50:07 - (Chris Lynam): Different story. Yeah. Yeah.
0:50:10 - (Isaac Kuhlman): I love burritos. All right, so let's talk about you guys for a little bit more, because obviously you're here. You guys have put some songs out already online, and now you guys have a new single. I heard it. It's fucking awesome. But let's talk about, you know, I think you guys have maybe like ten or eleven, maybe twelve songs out there. You guys haven't put together an actual album as far as I've seen, but, you know, basically releasing digitally streaming and stuff like that. So what do you guys have on the way? And you guys got shows and all that other.
0:50:50 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Anything like that coming up that you want to talk about?
0:50:52 - (Matty Lupinacci): Yeah, well, we have that single that you listen to coming out next Friday. We said. We worked with Frank from studios out here for Jefferson. Very awesome guy. Studio is great. The sound we add with these new songs are a little different than the other one. The other two songs are going to actually be featured on split. We're going to do a split with another band, something bitter. So they're actually in the process of finishing up their two songs. So maybe late winter we have another two coming out.
0:51:26 - (Matty Lupinacci): I love these last three songs, personally. Like, my favorite catalog so far.
0:51:32 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Think everyone else read like, nope. I fucking hate the direction.
0:51:39 - (Chris Lynam): By the way, and the band of all, too.
0:51:41 - (Matty Lupinacci): You know, like, you know, in the very beginning, when we first started, we had jade, the drummer, no longer with us. You know that, Danny. You know, and, you know, evolution and the way things are going sounds great. I'm looking forward to Fridays. I heard a lot of great feedback so far. A lot of people, like, pitched it to. A lot of playlisters are putting on the playlist coming up, so I'm excited for the song.
0:52:09 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah, tell everybody what the single is called so that they know what to look for.
0:52:12 - (Matty Lupinacci): It's called meet me at Garvey's.
0:52:14 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Meet me at Garvey's. Yeah.
0:52:15 - (Matty Lupinacci): Yeah. That can be left up to interpretation. Barbie's point is down on Long island. Musically, the song was written around the town. Barbie's point. Lyrically, it's a little different than that, but anybody. It's not up to interpretation.
0:52:35 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah, I remember when you sent it to me, you're like, let me know if it's any good. And I was like, this is fucking. When I say, like, when I try to explain to people, like, oh, what kind of music do you like? I'll just say, like, listen to this song. This is a very good example of the exact kind of music I like because it's. It's high energy. It's got good, like, instrumentation. You know, it's. It doesn't.
0:52:54 - (Isaac Kuhlman): It doesn't. It's not afraid to get loud and then get quiet and then, you know, go kind of take it on a little bit of a roller coaster. It's got a little bit of everything. So I was like, holy shit. Like, this is like a whole album in one song. This is fantastic. So, yeah.
0:53:05 - (Matty Lupinacci): Appreciate that.
0:53:06 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Thank you. Thank you. And then everybody will listen to it now. And then be like, that guy is full of shit. He lied to us. It's a terrible song. Well, you know, or he's got terrible taste of music.
0:53:17 - (Matty Lupinacci): We'll say something funny. And I threw it to the guys not a couple days ago. A couple people I submitted to. Now, it's personal taste, but, like, you know, one person wasn't a fan of the long intro. Now there's such a long instrumental intro before the lyrics start, you know, again, like, I think, like you said, has so much dynamics in the song where building up on certain things, and I think, like, maybe the newer listener really not listening for that.
0:53:49 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Sure.
0:53:50 - (Matty Lupinacci): I mean, I don't know.
0:53:50 - (Danny DiGiuseppe): That person has clearly never listened to tool with long intros.
0:53:55 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I think, you know, I think people are going to like the song. It's very. I mean, it is. Again, I don't just. I don't sit there and say, like, this is classified as what I would call pop punk. This is, like, something a little different, maybe, you know, a blend of genres, like emo pop rock, power pop and pop punk. So, like, a lot of pop in there, but, like, that's a good thing. Like, the reason why it's called pop is because it's popular, right. So, like, I think a lot of people will enjoy listening to this song specifically and all the songs. I mean, you guys, it's not like this is the first song you've put out that sounds like this or is know this good. They're pretty much. I just sat, what, like, two days ago and went through the whole catalog twice.
0:54:38 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Mostly because I had it on. I was just, like, listening to it, and then I, like, it was still going and I was like, oh, I already listened to all these songs already. That's cool. So, yeah, it's definitely something that you can enjoy in the background or you can, you know, enjoy while you're listening to it intently as well. All right. And then you guys have. Did you say you have shows coming up as well? I don't remember.
0:54:57 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Maybe you said that. I don't know.
0:54:59 - (Matty Lupinacci): Yeah, we have a pretty busy. Yeah, I would say over. We have a next show is October 3. We're playing in Brooklyn. Playing with, calling all captains, goalkeeper jam.
0:55:12 - (Chris Lynam): Poetry band, killer bands.
0:55:15 - (Matty Lupinacci): Looking forward to that. Really good. Most of the shows in Brooklyn in the area. We're playing at old Meadow street. Very good scene over there. You got a lot going on. They were playing like a Halloween show, a Facebook show, ironically, that we talked to before, so looking forward to that. So I love making shows. I love. I love in your face shows. I love. Yeah, I don't like really standing on the stage. I like. I like being in the crowd.
0:55:39 - (Matty Lupinacci): You guys, guys, like, kind of like, like, are you gonna jump on the floor again? You know, it's like, that's like being engaged with everybody. Um, yeah. What else we have going on in October? There's another October. Like Mister Beer's, right? I been around for a long time.
0:55:57 - (Danny DiGiuseppe): That's one of the places that made their name on always having live music.
0:56:02 - (Mike Drinkwalter): Auto shrunken head in New York City.
0:56:06 - (Matty Lupinacci): That's also Long island.
0:56:11 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah, I was just going to say, for all the people that don't know, calling on captains. And I'm not like a. I'm not a huge fan. Like, it's not that I don't like the music. They're good. I just haven't, like, dug into them as often as some other bands. But their tour right now, they just done like a whole countrywide tour. And every single time I see the bill, I'm like, I like all those supporting bands. I'm like, how is it that this one band has all the bands that I like across America supporting? And I'm like, that's pretty cool.
0:56:40 - (Isaac Kuhlman): If you go into a Colin all captain show, you're also going to, like, all the support.
0:56:43 - (Matty Lupinacci): Yeah, I think it's great that, like, you know, like, falling off Athens, like their booking age or the motor is like, they allow, like, local openers. Yeah, all the support groups. I mean, that's how you do. That's the way to go showcase. Like, there's been even, like, being back in the day on tour and I would see these bands and they blow you away. You're like, how are you not noticed? And I'm sure there's so many out there now.
0:57:15 - (Danny DiGiuseppe): I think to call back to an earlier part of the conversation, I think that's a way to get noticed these days, you know, is to just get on shows and just get seen and try to connect your following with someone else's following.
0:57:26 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah, I think, you know, whatever. I think the big. I think a really big help is if a band has any sort of notoriety, don't take another band that's unknown across the country with you. Right? Like, go, go take the bands that are in that scene and then you can expand your base in there by bringing on the local scene with a national scene. Right. Like, if I always see it, like, you know, I'll say mid level bands, I don't. I can't think of anything off the top of my head, but I think maybe, like the last Hot Mulligan tour, it was like them and then one other band and then. Or maybe two other bands and it was like, that was their national tour. I was like, why? Why don't you have other bands from the scene? Like opening up for you guys instead of blocking it off and saying, well, we're going to sell, you know, 900 tickets or a thousand tickets either way, let's go ahead and just do our own thing. It's like, it's great for those two bands to be, you know, going on a national tour with Hot Mulligan. Or whatever. But at the same time, it's like, how cool is it to have at least one local band on that bill as well?
0:58:22 - (Matty Lupinacci): So, yeah, I fully agree.
0:58:34 - (Isaac Kuhlman): The last thing I want to ask, there's going to be two questions here. But the last thing that I want to ask you guys is if you guys had a magic wand and could create a perfect balance for punk music's popularity, what would that look like?
0:58:45 - (Danny DiGiuseppe): I think for me it would be people being willing to take a chance on someone new and going out on a, you know, whatever, Thursday, Friday, Saturday night. See a band you haven't seen before. You know, go out, experience something new, discover something, you know, instead of relying on Spotify's discovery playlist to do it for you, you know, do some of the work yourself. Go find your own new music.
0:59:06 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah, those algorithms seem to feed you the same things over and over. It's like, I don't want to keep listening to this song every week, you jackass. Like, come on now.
0:59:14 - (Mike Drinkwalter): For me, it would be enough to make a living, even if it's a meager living, just, you know, something that would provide the opportunity just to that.
0:59:25 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah, I think Europe and Japan and some of these other countries, they do allow that for musicians, right? Like, there is, it's not like it's an insane thing to be popular and a newer band in the 21st century, right? And make money because european bands do it. Like, japanese bands, korean bands do it. Like, why can't american bands do it, right? So, yeah, it's not, it's not crazy. So I think that's a good one as well, because I think if that's always my goal, to help, you know, raise visibility for bands so that they can just pay the bills on the music, right? So, like, that's why, one of the big reasons why I started this, hell, if I could just make a living off of doing this podcast, you know, that would be exactly.
1:00:09 - (Isaac Kuhlman): So then on the other side of this, instead of being able to create a better future, let's say you guys have a crystal ball and can just observe the future of punk music. What do you guys see?
1:00:21 - (Chris Lynam): I tend to think it's gonna, it's gonna be, it's always gonna be about, like, the, the songs and the honesty of feeling and the, and the, like, the kind of courage and safety to be yourself. And that's kind of what I hope it will remain. And I hope that, I know, looking back, it's, it's, you know, it's always like a little rose colored, but I like, I feel like if, if that remains in the ethos, shall we say, then, then everything is going to work out okay.
1:00:55 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah. I was going to say what's going to happen in the future? You guys are going to lose more hair. We're going to get older. We're going to all be more grumpy. Danny's still going to have, you know, enough hair for all of us. So it'll be fine.
1:01:07 - (Chris Lynam): Oh, it's beautiful.
1:01:08 - (Danny DiGiuseppe): Maybe I'll just get grumpy because really.
1:01:09 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Up to your follicle count. Yeah, I think you're right. Like, you know, in a, in an optimistic world, punk music still, this punk music is allowed to be, you know, truthful and sincere. Right? Because it's, there's not, you know, pop music in itself isn't sincere. It's usually watered down versions of what you really want to say. Right. But punk music has never really been that. In my opinion.
1:01:34 - (Chris Lynam): Authenticity.
1:01:35 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah. Yeah.
1:01:37 - (Mike Drinkwalter): And, and challenging, challenging status quo and keeping people on asking, you know, always.
1:01:44 - (Danny DiGiuseppe): Something, the right questions and not being afraid to say it.
1:01:51 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Any other shout outs or anything you guys want to say before we go today?
1:01:54 - (Chris Lynam): We always just like to shout out to all our friends that we always play with bands like bitters and distraction. Something bitter, half dizzy. Playing dead. All our friends, you know, Steve and the not Steve's. All those guys.
1:02:07 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Steve and the not Steve's. I like that band name.
1:02:11 - (Chris Lynam): Pilot program. Yeah. Lunacy commission.
1:02:16 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah.
1:02:19 - (Matty Lupinacci): A lot of great bands that we've been playing with out here. Definitely check them out.
1:02:24 - (Chris Lynam): Really all great fans and great friends.
1:02:26 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah.
1:02:27 - (Mike Drinkwalter): And then obviously our roommate.
1:02:30 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Are you guys gonna do a crossover where you guys start adding horns to your bandaid?
1:02:35 - (Matty Lupinacci): Hey, you never see.
1:02:37 - (Chris Lynam): Maybe, maybe we'll schedule practice on the same night, see what happens.
1:02:40 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah. And I won't tell any of your guys family that you didn't give them a shout out, so don't worry and they won't.
1:02:44 - (Danny DiGiuseppe): You probably heard my son running around upstairs. He just came home a little bit ago. So I apologize if you're all heard that.
1:02:51 - (Isaac Kuhlman): So good. I have a three and a half year old. I'm surprised he has not banged on my door at all. He hasn't. He usually is pretty good, but he is crazy as hell for sure. That's the show for today. I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you learned anything or liked what you heard on the show today, please show us some support and subscribe to this channel and like comment and share this video with a friend or put it up on social media.
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