The Most Transformative Years of Rock Music Were the 1990s - Part 1: 1991-1995 The Rise of Grunge and Alternative Rock

 

Anthony Merchant: Anthony Merchant is the host of the Power Chord Hour podcast, a show dedicated to rock music, and he also hosts a program on Jamestown, New York's 107.9 WRFA called Power Chord Hour. With a deep knowledge and passion for various rock genres, Anthony explores the evolution and impact of rock music, sharing insights and engaging discussions with fellow rock enthusiasts.

Episode Summary:

In this episode of the Powered By Rock Podcast, host Isaac Kuhlman dives deep into the transformative decade of the 1990s in rock music with guest Anthony Merchant from the Power Chord Hour.

The conversation kicks off with an exploration of the dynamic musical landscape, highlighting how genres like grunge, alternative rock, punk, and pop punk not only coexisted but intertwined to shape the era's unique sound.

The discussion primarily focuses on the rise of grunge and its incredible impact on the rock music scene. Through the experiences and perspectives of both Kuhlman and Merchant, the episode paints a vivid picture of bands like Nirvana, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, and Alice in Chains, pinpointing their influence and the industry shift they catalyzed.

Merchant shares personal anecdotes and professional insights to illustrate how the nineties fostered an environment of rapid musical evolution and creative freedom.

Intro Music: Birds Love Filters "Colorado" - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://youtu.be/dqD_jMhZGqU⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Outro Music: Speedway Sleeper "Snail Mail" - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://youtu.be/21-vX3bBagc⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Please consider purchasing some cool merch or some musical instrument accessories at our site - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://poweredbyrock.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Check out the FREE DIY Rock Career Playlist here - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_2jRJsJubw&list=PL465-TazTQf5tZ9zGHitfmWQpYsbVlF99⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ You can also learn more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://diyrockcareer.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠

Key Takeaways:

• The 1990s was a period of significant transformation in rock music, with genres like grunge and alternative rock leading the charge.
• Nirvana's unexpected success had a monumental impact on the music industry, influencing countless bands and reshaping musical trends.
• Anthony Merchant explains the accessibility and relatability of grunge compared to the glam and hair metal of the eighties.
• Discussions on how bands like Weezer were instrumental in defining geek rock and alternative rock, expanding the influence of nineties music.
• The longevity of rock bands and their ability to constantly reinvent themselves without losing their core identity.

Resources:

Follow Anthony's Stuff:

Power Chord Hour on IG - https://www.instagram.com/powerchordhour/

Power Chord Hour on YT - https://www.youtube.com/@powerchordhour

Words and Sentences About Things and Stuff Podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/0i7KUwQFTJOkMiSy9nIQEP?si=a8de0b9cef5d47f4

Links to Related Content:

Part 1 of This Series - https://youtu.be/105TH1Q2klw

Part 2 of This Series - https://youtu.be/j9m9eUBlBic

Part 3 of This Series - https://youtu.be/Qm61JpgNH_k

Episode About Weezer's Influence & Production of Maladroit Album - https://youtu.be/vdjzzQHVeyw

 

Timeline:

00:00 - Episode Intro

01:22 The Transformative Impact of 1990s Rock Music

4:19 Nineties Music's Lasting Impact on Younger Generations

10:40 Grunge's Relatability Versus Hair Metal's Excess

15:36 The Accessibility and Influence of 90s Music

21:46 Nirvana's Unexpected Rise and Its Impact on 90s Rock

25:47 Weezer and Nirvana's Influence on Rock Music Evolution

31:41 Weezer's Evolution and Nirvana's Untarnished Legacy

35:56 The Longevity and Cultural Impact of The Simpsons and Family Guy

37:29 Weezer's Inconsistent Albums and Rivers Cuomo's Creative Struggles

 

Transcript:

0:00:00 - (Isaac Kuhlman): The nineties were a melting pot of sounds and styles where rock music wasn't just evolving, it was exploding genres like grunge, alternative rock, punk, pop, punk, ska, new metal, and rap. Rock didn't just coexist, they collided, merged and redefined what rock music could be. These were also my personal formative years, and from what I remember at the time, all the shape shifting was perfectly normal. Bands seemed to have a lot more creative license or just creativity to experiment and see what worked, all while one hit wonders were still a normal occurrence. It was a crazy paradox that record labels were still investing in the development of bands. But due to the fact that the new cool thing kept changing every few years, I think that labels started to get burnt out on trying to keep up with the rising trends. No matter how hard every label tried to predict the next new band, in the end they did what they always did. Once one type of music got a bit of airplay and popularity, they tried to find the next 30 bands in that same genre. But just as fast as labels could pump out copycat bandst, the scene of popular rock music shifted just as fast.

0:00:58 - (Isaac Kuhlman): In this episode, I'm talking with Anthony Merchant from the Power Cord Hour podcast and the host of Jamestown, New York's 107.9 WRFA powered Chord Hour. At 08:00 p.m. eastern on Friday nights, we're going to explore how these genres took over their airwaves, reshaped the industry, and made the 1990s the most transformative decade in rock history. All right. Hey, Anthony, welcome to the Powered by rock podcast. This is Anthony Merchant from Powercore Hour. Thank you so much for being here.

0:01:40 - (Anthony Merchant): Oh, thank you very much, Isaac. I've been looking forward to this, so.

0:01:43 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Obviously I wanted to bring up this topic with you. We've been kind of speaking before and back and forth a little bit about this topic of the nineties, how big and transformational, transformational the music of the nineties was. I've kind of been feeding it and weeding it through episodes and skirting around the topic lately on some of the podcast episodes. But I figured today was probably a good time to just sit down and talk about what was going on in the nineties. Like, there was so much happening that, you know, like I've said in past podcast episodes, like, if you were going through it at the time, you didn't even realize how fast those transformations were happening. Where all of a sudden grunge was the new thing and then all of a sudden alternative geek rock, you know, pop, punk, new metal, ska, everything was kind of coming in and out, right? It was like, just like every, like two years, something new was the new fad. And I would say, like, the nineties was kind of like the fad decade, right? Like there was so much happening. Like, every couple years, it was like, if you're not in part of this fad, you're wearing stuff from, like, two years ago, you're. You're not cool anymore, right? It's like, what the hell?

0:02:43 - (Isaac Kuhlman): So, you know, I would say, like, let's go and kind of start this at the beginning. And let's talk about the rise of grunge and alternative rock, which was basically right around the 1990 mark, 1991, somewhere there. And I would say that starts up in the Pacific Northwest. And I think it was about 1991, you could say a little earlier, there were some bands kind of doing some stuff. Like Soundgarden was already active, Alison change was already active. So was Nirvana.

0:03:08 - (Isaac Kuhlman): And, you know, the gray skies of Seattle kind of mirrored the brooding, introspective sound of a new musical movement which would become known as grunge. Bands like Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Alison Chains, like I said, brought a raw, unpolished sound that contrasted sharply with that glam metal and hair metal bands of the eighties. And it wasn't just a genre, right? Like, it was a look. It was a rebellion against the excesses of the previous decades. So, like, the eighties was all about, you know, greed is good. Gordon Gekko from Wall street, right? Like cocaine, money. Like big hair, big, you know, everything, right? It was just like this big coke commercial everywhere.

0:03:44 - (Isaac Kuhlman): And grunge was just not that, right? So it was like, let's give it back from the haves to the have nots. That's kind of what the grunge went. The way that grunge went. And finally, you know, it kind of started thriving when, you know, Nirvana kind of came in with the album nevermind. That was a catalyst, obviously, with the breakout single smells like Teen Spirit, which basically turned the music industry on its head. And suddenly flannel shirts and ripped jeans were in, and the glossy, overproduced rock of the eighties was out of. Bring me back to your perspective on this time period in this era and tell me what you were thinking while this was all going down.

0:04:19 - (Anthony Merchant): So I was. You know, it's funny, I probably caught on to, because, like, Nirvana was one of my favorite bands growing up. But I found them when I was, like, 13. I'm 31. So, like, I was 13 and, like, 0405. So, I mean, you know what I.

0:04:33 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Mean, I kind of college in zero four. Come on, man.

0:04:38 - (Anthony Merchant): Like, I was. I was after. So I was born in 92, so, like, I was like. But at the same time, what's interesting about this? And I still have a lot to say. Cause, like, I had young parents, so, like, like, a lot of that stuff was still around. Like, I remember finding, like, my parents had a copy of Nevermind on CD before I listened to it. I just remember, like, my dad's cd collection. So, like, it was around, but I hadn't really actively. I probably heard it in passing, but, like, that, like, you know, really noticing what it was or paying attention. Not till, like, early two thousands. But I mean, it quickly became nirvana specifically. I mean, one of my favorite bands growing up. And definitely a, like, it's funny. Cause, like, a lot of stuff I listen to now, I go back and go like, oh, yeah, you know, Nirvana was definitely that gateway where, like. Like, who, skirdoo. I love now. But I don't know that I would have gone into them without that. Nirvana, like, Nirvana was that bridge, I think. I think it will probably get to a lot of other genres.

0:05:30 - (Anthony Merchant): And sometimes I call them. This may be a terrible analogy, but there's the wine coolers of music. And I've used this analogy, like, link 182 and green day and different things where not everybody starts into punk rock by listening to, like, crass or like, some really, like, you know, like, getting really, really into the paint. With punk, sometimes you need those, like, entryways that, like, wine cooler. You don't start with, like, whiskey or something, a hard liquor. You start with something that's easier to digest and it gets you in there. And I think Nirvana is one of those in the early nineties and again later on your blinks, your green days, you know, and there's ones with skies and stuff. But, yeah, I mean, for me, grunge definitely starting with Nirvana and then on and off throughout. I mean, I really do like grunge, but I think a lot of it, I noticed I maybe got into more of even, like, last ten years. Like, if I'm being honest, man. Like, even like, screaming trees. I started listening to them a few years ago. I was like, oh, this band's really good.

0:06:25 - (Anthony Merchant): And it was like, maybe 2022. I really started, you know, knowing of them, but didn't really start listening to more, like, recent years.

0:06:33 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah. And this is an interesting perspective that I also want to bring up because, you know, you know, my wife's about your age. Her sister is in a band. She's five years younger than her. All of her friends kind of listen to nineties music, which is crazy to me that, like, we're still talking about, you know, when I was, you know, I was growing up eighties and nineties, like, we weren't listening to necessarily sixties, seventies, 80 music all the time.

0:06:59 - (Isaac Kuhlman): We were kind of listening to what was on the radio, but at the same time, we knew of and listened to some of those old bands and stuff like that because our parents did. But it seems like a lot of younger people right now are listening to stuff that I wouldn't even consider. Not that it wasn't popular, but it just didn't seem like it hit that hard back then. And now all of a sudden, it's more popular now than it was back then. And one band in particular, this is just kind of off topic, but one in band in particular, everybody in around the age group, age group between like 24 and 30 right now seems to know who the Talking Heads are. And I.

0:07:34 - (Isaac Kuhlman): That's interesting because the talking heads were good, but I was like, I like them, but I was never, like, deeply, like, you know, I never. I didn't know all the words, their songs and buy their albums, but everybody's like, how do you not know the talking heads? I'm like, what? How do you know who the talking heads are? How is that possible that, you know, like, you know, David Byrne and all these guys were from, like, you know, I wouldn't say just a mediocre band, but it's like, just in my. In my perspective of that band, while that band was famous, it was kind of like they were a quirky, unique band, kind of like a devo, and they just kind of came in and kind of went out. But, like, they had a decent run.

0:08:09 - (Isaac Kuhlman): But then I didn't hear from them for like 20 years, and then they kind of did a reunion in maybe like the 2010 ish, I want to say, but I'll have to look that up later, but. And now all of a sudden, they're big again with, like, kids these days. I'm like, that seems strange. So it is like, you know, you being. You being 31 and having this. I got into Nirvana in 2004 kind of mentality. It's one of those things that draws me in, and it makes me even more kind of aware that, you know, this music of the nineties, the music of certain bands of this, of this era, really resonate. It doesn't matter. It doesn't feel like it's old music, right? Like, Nirvana still doesn't feel like it's old music. Like, when I listened to music that my dad listened to, like Aerosmith from the seventies, I'm like, that felt like old music. Even in, like, 1985 when they were still an active band. And they still were an active band till this year, obviously. But, like, they were in the peak of their musicianship. I was like, this feels like old music. Like, this is like dad music.

0:09:06 - (Anthony Merchant): Yeah.

0:09:06 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Nirvana still doesn't seem like dad music. It's that rebellious spirit, like, you know, you would have as a young person. So it's interesting that you brought that up, that you didn't get into it, obviously, until, know, you being in basically middle school or high school or early. Well, I guess late middle school, right.

0:09:21 - (Anthony Merchant): So, yeah, like 6 hours or maybe 7th grade. I'm going to say I was like, 7th grade?

0:09:27 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah. Because when I was growing up, you know, the first things I was listening to was pop music, you know, because grunge wasn't on the radio yet. This is what I'm talking about. Like, you know, boys to men, ace of bass.

0:09:39 - (Anthony Merchant): Oh, yeah, prince.

0:09:41 - (Isaac Kuhlman): You know, there's like a Michael Jackson. That was the kind of stuff that was on the radio that you would just know, right? Like nowadays, Bruno Mars, Ed Sheeran, like that kind of same thing. But we didn't have that option of just hearing, you know, rock music, new rock music. It was always like Def Leppard, guns n roses, you know, that kind of stuff. And I was like, it's better than pop, I guess. But at the same time, I never really got into that music because I was like, everybody seemed to be like a heroin addict or, you know, a complete degenerate waste of space. And I'm like, well, I don't want to be like that. So I don't aspire to, you know, I don't relate to those lyrics or anything like that.

0:10:14 - (Anthony Merchant): Yeah.

0:10:15 - (Isaac Kuhlman): And I didn't like the new wave stuff from the eighties, so it's very interesting. So, you know, I think I had to be convinced that grunge was gonna be this new thing because I didn't quite get it at first because it was like, I don't dress like that, I don't look like that. I don't quite get it. I'm not depressed all the time, but I could relate to that a hell of a lot more than pop music and a lot more than, like, glam and hair metal music. So I don't know, what's your kind of take on, like, the relatability of grunge at that time?

0:10:40 - (Anthony Merchant): Well, I think what's interesting, and I do. I've always thought this is very interesting, and I will say that, like, I don't hate hair metal. I definitely am more in grunge, but, like, listen, like, I think appetite for destruction, I think it's a great record. Like, I don't mind the hits of a lot of the hair metal bands, but, like, grunge is more the genre that I actually listen to the records and the bands and all that, if that makes sense. Like, I won't turn off Def Leppard on the radio, but I also, you know, I really don't have any of their records either, kind of thing.

0:11:07 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah.

0:11:08 - (Anthony Merchant): What I always thought was interesting, and I would. This kind of, actually, what I think is interesting, too, you know, how, like, I was later on, but you were there when it's happening. The thing about grunge with it killing hair metal is I. It's not that I don't disagree with that statement, but I. What I've always thought is interesting is that that's always been the big thing, how, like, Nirvana came out and overnight, like, hair metal went away.

0:11:28 - (Anthony Merchant): But don't you feel, like most genres, I mean, that's just a big genre being replaced. Like, I mean, if you look at it, we're at this cusp of a new decade. Like, if grunge wasn't going to take out hair metal, something else was going to. And I don't disagree. Like, I've always agreed with it, but I've always thought it was so interesting that that's the big one everyone always talks about is grunge killing hair metal, where I'm like, hair metal killed something else. I mean, hair metal killed whatever was before it, and whatever was before hair metal killed that.

0:11:53 - (Anthony Merchant): You know what I mean? It's like. And if you go down the list, you end up, like you were talking about, like, Aerosmith and stuff, but it just keeps going down wherever the thing that's big right now kills what came before it. I do think maybe one of the reasons, though, why it's brought up more and you were talking about it is the difference of the night and day of one's very excessive. We're drinking, we're doing drugs.

0:12:13 - (Anthony Merchant): You know, we're. We're doing, you know, I mean, it's just. And, like, you're talking about, too. Not. Not even that crazy relatable. Like, I. I'm not playing in an arena in Indianapolis tonight and, you know, with groupies and drugs and alcohol and making thousands of dollars or whatever like, I can't relate to that. You know, grunge is more relatable. So, like, I mean, I do think there's that interesting aspect where I do think they are night and day, like, in a lot of ways, but then, at the same time, I think it's interesting because I also don't know that some of the influences aren't the same. Like, I honestly think there's more, like.

0:12:45 - (Anthony Merchant): I mean, it goes back to punk, but it's like, you know, like, even, like, with guns n roses, a lot of those guys were into punk music and probably liked a lot of the records that Kurt Cobain did, but it comes out more in coker brains. You know, obviously it comes out more in Nirvana, but, like, I mean, I think those guys liked fear and TSOL and, like, all the old school punk bands. Like, I'm pretty sure guns n roses, a lot of those guys liked punk as well.

0:13:07 - (Anthony Merchant): It just. You know, and the Ramones and stuff, but it's like, all that. I think you just. It's more prominent and grunge in Nirvana, but I think that's an interesting part, too. I don't know that influences are that crazy off of each other, but it's cool to see what the end product is where, one, you don't really hear punk anymore, even though I still think they were into it. In the other, it's like, oh, yeah, you hear the direct.

0:13:26 - (Anthony Merchant): I mean, like, again, to bring up who screw do. Like, now that they're one of I love who's could do. I think they're one of the best fans. And, like, now I go back and listen to Von and you're like, oh, my God. Like, you hit, like, there's no way Kurt Cobain could deny, like, he had to love Bob mold songwriting. Like, that guy had to have loved, you know, and I know there's a famous. I don't. I don't know how much you know about into it, but, like, replacements are my favorite band. And there's a whole thing about Kurt Cobain kind of denying that the replacements influenced them, and that bothered Paul Westerberg, the singer of the replacements. Now, I do agree with Paul Westerberg. I think Kurt Cobain was influenced by him, but for some reason didn't want to admit it, even though I hear the replacements all over Nirvana, but, yeah, like, I don't know. I think there's. I don't know. I just think it's interesting, the kind of going back to that, where, like, you know, we talk about so much over the years grunge killing hair metal. But again, I think there's some similarities. Not a lot, but there are some similarities and stuff that are there that I don't know. I think it's interesting we start dissecting them more and more.

0:14:30 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Like when you talk about, like the influences, right? I mean, yeah. The difference between, I think the end product, you know, they. You. Everybody could start with the same six bands and then you would have 400 bands with 400 different sounds kind of coming out of those six bands. Right. Because that's kind of what happened really.

0:14:46 - (Anthony Merchant): Actually, in the nineties. We could do that even to this day with like Nirvana, Weezer, blank, 182 Green Day.

0:14:51 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Exactly.

0:14:52 - (Anthony Merchant): I don't know, throw like an alternative rock band or something. It's like those six bands have influenced, you know, alternative rock. Yeah, exactly. Like since they've came out, you still hear them in the blueprints of music to this day.

0:15:05 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Exactly. And so I think the difference, obviously, like you're saying the end product, I think one genre, the hair metal, and. And, you know, even like heavy metal and, you know, like hard rock, like metallicas and Megadeths and stuff like that, the difference between the eighties and nineties in those rock musicians and those rock groups was that I think they tried. And this is where the power ballad became a thing, right? Like, I think they tried to, like, perfect the craft, whereas, like, in the nineties, it was like, I just want to play the music.

0:15:36 - (Isaac Kuhlman): I want to make the songs. I don't have to perfect anything. And then I'm gonna inspire 10 million other kids just like me to actually go and pick up a guitar and play the music and write the songs instead of perfecting the craft. That's the reason why I started playing guitar and writing songs. Cuz I was like, if I was ever going to have to write a song like Megadeth or Metallica or Guns n Roses, I was never gonna write. Yeah, there's no chance. Like, I don't care how good I get, I don't think that's gonna repeat. It's not repeatable. I was just thinking about this today on my morning bike ride.

0:16:09 - (Isaac Kuhlman): I listen to cursive a lot. Cursive is obviously underground, emo great. Well, well known necessarily, but they're there, they got their place. And I was like, they might be one of the least covered bands in the history of the world. And I think it's because nobody can really do what they do. The talent of the singing, the talent of the band, the timing changes, everything else. It's like you get diminishing returns for trying to cover them as an artist.

0:16:36 - (Anthony Merchant): Yeah.

0:16:37 - (Isaac Kuhlman): They're not super popular enough to where other people who are listening are going to even know what the song is. And you have to try so damn hard to be good at it that you probably are going to waste the time and effort to even get people into the. Into the song and draw them in anyway. So it's like, maybe that's a reason why, you know, a band like cursive is so hard to cover. But, you know, Nirvana with Megadeth, Metallica, guns n roses all the time, because they can play that part and they can replicate it. But to come up with that thing in the first place, it's. It's very, very difficult to do that.

0:17:09 - (Anthony Merchant): Well, kind of going back to that, like, that terrible wine cooler analogy of mine, what you're talking about with, like, the accessibility, I think that's such an important thing, too, because same thing for me, it was probably blink 182, but then it's also, like the Ramones and different things where, you know, I can't. I'm with you. I can't, like, play a crazy. So, like, I play guitar and bass, but, like, I play power chords. I don't. I don't like riff. I'm not a soloist.

0:17:33 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Podcast.

0:17:34 - (Anthony Merchant): Right, yeah, exactly. I play. And you know what's so funny about that? A lot of people are surprised. I play guitar and I'm like, why would someone like. I. I guess if someone named their show power court hour, I just assume. I feel like that's a little too. Like, it's not musical jargon, but it's. It's enough in there where I'm like, I don't think you would name it that if you didn't have at least a little knowledge.

0:17:52 - (Isaac Kuhlman): But, uh, call it articulating arpeggios. Would that help you understand?

0:17:56 - (Anthony Merchant): Articulating arpeggios hour? I love it. No, but. But, like, honestly, I do. I think that. I think there's something to really be said about, you know, I don't know, like, I'm not a big classic rock guy. Like, again, that's another one where it's like, I don't hate Led Zeppelin or anything, but I listen to what's on the radio. I don't own any Led Zeppelin records. If they're on, I won't turn them off, but I'm not going to go buy an album, like, things like that, where I can't play like those guys, but I can play all of dude ranch I can learn how to play dude ranch front to back in a weekend. You know what I mean? Like, I.

0:18:30 - (Anthony Merchant): Yes, yes, you can. And you may even be able to play it better than the band themselves. Like, I mean, you. You know, like. And I love. I mean, blink range, one of my favorite bands. But, like, there is same with the Ramones where it's, like, it's not a whole lot, you know? But funny enough, when you overthink it, it is. I will say there is a secret talent to that, where there is musicians who overplay, who can't play the Ramones to save their life.

0:18:50 - (Anthony Merchant): I've talked to people who are like, there's Berkeley musicians who can't just fucking play blitzkrieg bop because they can't figure out how just to play bar chords, dude, don't start adding things. Don't start doing, like, enough, man.

0:19:01 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Like, yeah, downstroke. Don't do anything else. Don't do upstrokes.

0:19:06 - (Anthony Merchant): So I will give them credit. In that way. We're like, there is still. You know, I mean, I definitely think there's skill in that, but, like, I do still think the Ramones and things like that are way more accessible. Like, you're saying, like, I can't play, you know, a lot of, like, I can't fucking play a guns n Roses riff, but I can play the damn it riff. I can learn how to play damn it. And, you know, like, I think there's something to be said. Same with, like, a weezer or something. I mean, you still hear them everywhere. And it's, like, it's fairly simple. It's not overly. You know, there's little solos here and there, but it's not overly, like, you know, it's. It's.

0:19:39 - (Anthony Merchant): It's in a good pocket, I would say. It's a nice balance of things.

0:19:43 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah. And I think Weezer did a really good job of taking their. They actually are all really good musicians, and they tone it down for the sake of the music. Right. So, like, that's another thing, is, like, does the song require a five minute guitar solo? Probably not. Sit down slash. Let's, like, actually listen to what the. What the song is about instead of just listening to a, you know, ripping guitar solo for whatever reason.

0:20:07 - (Anthony Merchant): Talking a little bit about how, like, oh, yeah. I mean, I don't mind, like, hard rock and the hair metal of the eighties, but, like, again, to drive it back home to what we're talking about. The difference is I like the singles and radio hits of that, whereas, like, I've like, the blue album is one of the best albums ever. Like, I love, like, we, you know, blue album, Pinkerton. All these albums from the nineties are full front to back. I love them. I listen to them on my own accord. Like, I want to listen. You know what I mean? Like, that's what's in my record collection. Like, I don't hate the stuff that came before it in the eighties, but a lot of that stuff I'll listen to on the radio. It's not something I listen to, you know, like, after this, if I go for a walk or something, I walk the dog.

0:20:43 - (Anthony Merchant): I'm probably listening to something from the nineties and not the eighties on my. I. You know, I say ipod. My iPhone.

0:20:48 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah, yeah, you're old enough to know what an ipod is. At least.

0:20:53 - (Anthony Merchant): My zoom.

0:20:54 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah, I had one of those, actually. I was like, man, this thing's awesome. Like, everybody else is like, why would you get a zune? And, like, two years later, they stopped, like, existing. I was like, yeah, it sounds about right.

0:21:02 - (Anthony Merchant): I did always say was, and we don't have to stay on Zunes. But the coolest thing about that was, couldn't you share a song to other people at a zoon for, like, they could listen to it, like, three times or something? It was the coolest concept.

0:21:13 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah, there was some pretty cool technology baked in that just never latched on. And then as soon as the iPhone came out, I was like, never mind. We don't need these things. Yeah. I kind of remember at the time, during this Nirvana explosion, right? It was absolutely unexpected, which, you know, from my perspective, I was probably ten, 1011 years old when this whole thing was going on. And, you know, old enough to actually know what music is at the time, going to concerts and stuff like that.

0:21:46 - (Isaac Kuhlman): There was actually a band that a lot of record labels were kind of, well, couple record labels and specifically were banking on becoming what Nirvana actually did. And a lot of people thought it was gonna be like Sonic Youth or Alison Chains Soundgarden, right? Like, some of these other bands that kind of had been growing for a while. And it was like, Nirvana just, like, puts out this one album that they kind of just threw together, got rid of their old drummer, got Dave Grohl in there, put out their next album, and suddenly, boom, like, they hit, right? So, like, Sonic Youth was now writing the coattails of Nirvana. Alison Chains is now writing the coattails of Nirvana.

0:22:21 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Soundgarden is kind of writing the coattails. That's like. That's crazy because they're like, one of the newest bands, but they just had this surge of energy and you could, like, you could feel it even just like, you know, if you ever watch the unplugged, then revolving, there's an energy. Even when they're taking all the energy out of their songs, that you're like, still, there is the energy that you're talking about. It's undeniable.

0:22:42 - (Isaac Kuhlman): You put.

0:22:42 - (Anthony Merchant): You could.

0:22:43 - (Isaac Kuhlman): You could sit there and watch Chris Cornell in concert and you get that he's a rock star, right? But at the same time, you're like, it's not that. Like, I don't know what Kurt Cobain and Nirvana had, but it wasn't. Soundgarden never had that. They were still great rock band, but never had that. And so it was always these guys riding the coattails and, you know, even bands like Radiohead, Smashing Pumpkins, REm, all these guys ended up kind of riding the coattails.

0:23:07 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Nirvana, in different ways, right? So it was like, well, they got.

0:23:10 - (Anthony Merchant): Major label deals because of Nirvana. That wouldn't have been a thing. None of those bands you just mentioned probably would have had, like, you wouldn't have seen them on MTV and got in, you know, the deals that they did. Had it not been for Nirvana. There's no way that major labels are probably going to touch half those bands you just mentioned.

0:23:26 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah. And I think even what's more notable is the fact that Nirvana obviously stopped existing, right? Kurt Cobain killed himself. I think it was 1994, very shortly after their success, right? So, like, three years. That band was crazy to think of years. And they are still one of the most popular and one of the most famous bands of all time, which is crazy. Again, it's not one of those members of the 27 club, right? So, like, Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, you know, Kurt Cobain, I think it was. Janis Joplin was another one.

0:23:59 - (Isaac Kuhlman): So, like, however many people, you know, it was that, you know, died at the age of 27 by now. Like, I think it's pretty interesting that, like, if you think about this, Kurt Cobain's, you know, existence in the mainstream was from his age, 24 to 27. That's all he had. Jeez, imagine if you only had three years to become famous. And it was those three years, like, I can't even imagine. Like, I've been, like, there's. I was doing nothing from 24 to 27 that was ever gonna get me famous. So I was like, that's a lot of pressure, and I understand why. A lot of these bands were, like, struggling to attain peace of mind and drugs. And alcohol were a thing because they were just, you know, record labels are dumping money into these basically kids.

0:24:40 - (Anthony Merchant): Oh, yeah.

0:24:42 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Don't know what to do with it. Like, they're not going to invest in a house necessarily. They're going to go out and party. Like, well, what do you do when you're 25 years old? You party a lot, right? So that's kind of what was going on. It was crazy.

0:24:52 - (Anthony Merchant): I do think that's that genuine part where even, like, I mean, I talk about this all the time with people on the power court hour, but, like, where if you try to force it, I think it would be terrible. Like, I think if. If Kurt Cobain, you know, because I don't know, I've read a bunch of things where, like, what's his name, butch Vig had to, like, convince him if he ever. If he wanted to do anything in the studio, it have to be like the Beatles did it. Like, Kurt Cobain didn't want to, like, double his vocals until Butch Vic is like, no, Paul McCartney does it. So it's like, okay, now I'll do it. But, like, if he was more of. If he was more compliant and was, like, trying to make a major label album and trying to polish their sound, I think, never mind. Would be an awful album and they wouldn't have the place, like I, in the nineties specifically. And I'm sure we'll keep talking about this, but a lot of the records that did the best were ones you. I mean, again, the blue Album. The blue album doesn't like it. It makes sense afterwards. Like, what I'm talking about. Like, I. I discovered Weezer around the same time I discovered nirvana.

0:25:47 - (Anthony Merchant): And at that point, it's not weird because there's thousands of bands that sound like Weezer and have ripped them off by 2004. But when they came out, that's a pretty wild band to be on. Like, to put on MTV, put on the radio, give a major label budget, you know, like, work with Rick Okasick and stuff. Like, you know, they were a band.

0:26:05 - (Isaac Kuhlman): For like a year.

0:26:06 - (Anthony Merchant): Yeah. Like, that doesn't, you know, like they're, you know, I even like, I don't know. I always think of, like, the violent femmes in the eighties of being that kind of original, of like, that kind of quirky alternative. And like, even they didn't really blow up till later on in their career. And even they weren't on a major for a long time till, like, later. Actually, I think a couple of their last records before they broke up in the nineties, like, before that. That wasn't, like a viable commercial kind of, you know, thing. So, like, the Weezers and Nirvana's, you know, just bands like that. I still laugh. That blink rainy, too. I mean, like, their first major label, you know, I'm called Dude Ranch and then Enema of the state. And it's like, that's hilarious. Like, you know, there's bands who, like, I think before and after the nineties probably wouldn't have been on a major.

0:26:48 - (Anthony Merchant): And I think Nirvana, that's the other thing is, like, nirvana's like the Beatles or. I don't care. You don't have to like them, but you have to acknowledge, like, I don't care what you. You might think they're the worst band ever. And I know that's not really what most people think. They love both those bands. But no matter what you think, there's certain bands that, like, you can't deny, like, I mean, they had direct effects on people's, you know, careers, whether those people knew it or not. There's bands from the nineties who, the whole reason they never had to listen. Maybe they weren't influenced by Nirvana at all. But if they were something under the guise of, like, alternative rock, like, Nirvana helped you. Nirvana. If you were on MTV or you got on a major or something, it was probably because of the effects of Nirvana.

0:27:29 - (Anthony Merchant): You were feeling the effects of that, you know, even later on.

0:27:31 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah. And that's one thing that, you know, it doesn't really happen in rock music now because it's not a big rock band that's kind of carrying this next generation of rock bands with them. Right?

0:27:42 - (Anthony Merchant): Yeah.

0:27:42 - (Isaac Kuhlman): You know, people thought, oh, yeah, machine gun Kelly brought pop punk back. I'm like, no, no, he didn't. Because name another single other pop punk band that's kind of ridden that wave since he put out that.

0:27:52 - (Anthony Merchant): Can I say not to. Not to, like, get sidetracked. Like, even when that was happening. It's one of those things where it's like, yeah, he helps himself get on the radio. Any good pop punk bands didn't get exposure from that? There were no, like, it wasn't, like, all of a sudden people who you're big fans of who couldn't, like, make ends meet where all of a sudden getting pools and, like, getting nice houses in the year 2021. Because, like, pop punk got elevated. It elevated the guy who was already famous.

0:28:17 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah, it didn't help anybody else to make another album and some 41 to make another album. But we already knew who those people were right. It's like, okay, exactly.

0:28:26 - (Anthony Merchant): It does nothing. Whereas, like, with, like a nirvana. I mean, there were so many unknown bands who got a chance. Like, that's a very good point that I don't know that I've thought of much before. But, like, yeah, you're right. Like Machine Gun Kelly and things like that aren't really elevating anybody. But back then there were bands who did truly, you know, and I don't know the last time that happened. I mean, I think. I think major labels obviously dried up. I think there was a little in the early two thousands with pop punk where there was like that.

0:28:50 - (Anthony Merchant): It was the very end of major labels still signing pop punk bands where, like, I think before 2004, you still had the residual blink 182 kind of where, like, coming out. Yeah, like no band. Some bands, I guess I should say, broke that big. But a lot of them never made it to, like, that size. But I mean, there were bands who never, you know, I think there are a lot of those even drive through bands who got upstream to majors where, like, I don't think there was another time and place where that would have happened. It was kind of a couple years later they. That that wasn't going to happen at all. You know, you got kind of the end of it there.

0:29:25 - (Isaac Kuhlman): I do want to just circle back to the Weaver thing which. Which was, you know, they came out obviously shortly after. Right. Like, right after Nirvana kind of came and went. Like there's all of a sudden Weezer filling this gap of, you know, normal guys playing music again. And it's like, okay, well, it's a different sound. It's not grunge necessarily. It kind of sounded grungy with the guitars, but the vocals, the harmonies, the melodies, the kind of intricacies of what they're doing. And like you said, not the overproduction wasn't really there. Like, they weren't sitting, you know, down and quadrupling vocals and 62 tracks of vocal harmonies in there to make sure something sounded right. Right.

0:30:07 - (Isaac Kuhlman): They just did it simply. They did it very well. And then they inspired a whole genre called geek rock and then a whole bunch of other alternative bands like bare naked ladies, the rentals, obviously directly. That's Matt Sharp's band. He was. But even, you know, help give rise to other bands. Like you said, even people like violent femmes, they might be giants. Some of these bands that kind of sound, these bands kind of started coming back around and it was like you never really saw. You don't see this anymore. You don't see a band come up, create this huge buzz, and then all of a sudden there's this, like, let's bring everything with it. Like a whirlwind, right? Like the wizard of Oz. Like this tornado comes through and just, like, tears everything up and starts carrying it off to the, you know, the wild world of Oz or whatever you want to call. But, you know, I think when I look back at Weezer, Nirvana, two of the most influential bands as far as not just changing the sound of the time, but also causing a direct influence of growth in this genre of their particular pockets of rock. Right.

0:31:14 - (Anthony Merchant): I'm not the first to ever, like, bring this up. And, I mean, we have to go, like, super far in, but even going back to that being genuine and why I think, like, blue album and nevermind and stuff blew up so much. Like, I don't know your feelings about, like, later era Weezer. I don't know if you're, like, if you particularly care for what they do anymore. Like, I love the first couple Weezer records, but, like, this goes back to what bothers me the most about Rivers Cuomo is, like, all the co writes and all the producers and stuff on later stuff.

0:31:41 - (Anthony Merchant): Dude, you can write a song. You wrote two records that influenced, like, to this day, there's. There are bands that literally just sound like Pinkerton. Like, there are bands that just sound influenced by your first two records. And, like, I think some of it. I do feel like some of it's like, this passive aggressive, like, I still think he's like, obviously the whole. The whole disaster with Pinkerton is far gone, and history has been pretty well to it. I think it's treated a lot better than it did when it, like, happened. But I still feel like there's a part of him that holds on to. All right, you fuckers don't want it. Like, you don't like Pinkerton. You don't like me being raw. Like, now I'm going to give you the most dumb pop songs I can. I can write with four other guys.

0:32:23 - (Anthony Merchant): And, like, I think that's why they don't hit anymore. Like, like, it's the first two records that influence all these bands. It's not like, make believe or ratitude. Ratitude isn't the album that, like, defined a generation. And those are the ones who have the most co rights and, like, there's features on it. There's, you know, like, the one album has, like, lil Wayne on a song, and there's, like, all these weird talk about that. There's some weird ones on there where it's just like, just make a weezer record, man. Just put loud power chords and, like, write a nice melody, and it's like, you know how to do this, yet he won't. And again, like, I think there's something to be said about the best Weezer records are the ones that they didn't think that much of. Like, it was them and it was raw and it was real.

0:33:05 - (Anthony Merchant): And now going off that, again, I. I talk about this on the show a lot. I know other people do. And I would like your opinion, but I do think one of the reasons, though, and I think Weezer still has a big influence. But Weezer and Nirvana are interesting because, again, Kurt Cobain, like you were saying, it's crazy. Three years of success and Nirvana's gone and he joined the 27 club. But that also means that they are a snapshot in time.

0:33:30 - (Anthony Merchant): And, like, Nirvana can't make their ratitude like Weezer can. Weezer's still together. They can make the hurley's and the rattitudes. They can embarrass themselves. Yes. They can keep doing things that tarnish their legacy. Where with Nirvana, you know, after 1994, they really can't. I mean, like, you know, they're the estate, Ken. I mean, there's things are like, oh, geez. Like, you know, nirvana shirts at Walmart, you know, like, things like that where it's like, you know, people who aren't, you know, Kurt Cobain have say. But it's like, overall, you have that legacy where Kurt Cobain can't write a bad record at 45. You know what I mean? Like, he can't get into a weird.

0:34:06 - (Anthony Merchant): There's not that weird Nirvana record. Cause they didn't get a chance to. And in a way that I think that helped them, you know, obviously, it'd be much better if Kurt Cobain was still with us and, like, he still got to write music. And I'm sure there'd be amazing things in there, but I do think I.

0:34:20 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Would just quit playing music at, like, 30 anyway. Like, he would have just been like.

0:34:24 - (Anthony Merchant): I could see that, actually, I'm done. And I. There's integrity in that. I would, like, honestly respect that. But I do think there is something to be said about that. We're like. You notice it with bands where bands who break up and get back together sometimes it's the best thing to happen to your career. If the ones who stay together all the years and keep, like, a consistent lineup, people kind of forget about that sometimes. People like, I think you get more accolades when you break up, make people wait and come back than the guys who are like, yeah, it's been the four of us since, like, 1992.

0:34:53 - (Anthony Merchant): We don't hate each other. We've written records consistently toward no one. I shouldn't say no one cares, but those aren't generally. The bands are doing huge. Like, some of the ones who are lifers don't really get it as much as the ones who, like, break up, make people want what they can't have, and then later come back, you know? And again, when Nirvana, they can't do that. But I don't know. I think those are all.

0:35:14 - (Anthony Merchant): And I don't know if that takes us anywhere, but I just think all those points are interesting with, like, the weezer, the nirvana, and then just the not being able to, you know, embarrass yourself. Like, Kurt Cobain couldn't write Beverly Hills. He never got the chance to write, you know, Beverly Hills, basically.

0:35:30 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah. And I'll respond to that with two, two short stories, and hopefully I'll keep this and so we can move on to the next topic. But so the Simpsons one time had an episode. They got pretty meta, and they actually talked about this show, itchy and scratchy running forever. And then the kids kind of forgetting it was there. I think maybe it was not just itchy and scratchy. Might have been the scishow Bob or one of the shows that they watched or whatever, and, like, they just stopped watching it.

0:35:56 - (Isaac Kuhlman): And, you know, I think something happened where they were trying to have to explain why they just didn't watch anymore. And Simpsons were saying, like, why aren't our ratings as high as they used to be? And it was basically the same thing, like, when you just, you know you like it. The Simpsons probably are still good. I haven't watched the Simpsons since, like, probably 2003, say, I wouldn't dislike it. I don't think if I watched it, it's just like, it's just there. We know it's there. And this is exactly what they said in the episode. It's like, we know it's there.

0:36:23 - (Isaac Kuhlman): We can always come back to it. We just have this comfortability that we don't have to. It's like an old friend. Like, you don't have to see them all the time. You can come back whenever you want. And so that's very much like that band that sticks around, like Weezer now. Family guy. On the other hand, a very other popular Fox animated series was actually canceled after I had a third season.

0:36:44 - (Anthony Merchant): Yeah.

0:36:44 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Didn't come back for, like, seven years, and then all of a sudden, it was wildly popular again. It was like the number one rated show had spinoffs left and right. And, you know, Seth MacFarlane, who basically was kind of out of work for a while. Not necessarily out of work, but, like, out of kind of mainstream work.

0:36:59 - (Anthony Merchant): Yeah.

0:37:00 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Was doing his own movies. You know, I was like, where did, how did he get, you know, to star in an action movie with Charlize Theron is like, this doesn't even make any sense. Like, this guy's an animated, you know, voiceover character actor or whatever. But it's, it's that, right? Like, it's kind of like what you're saying there in the sense that, you know, the idea is that if something's there long enough, you know, you can always come back here. And Weezer has like, okay, human was a good record that came out in 2021, I want to say, or 2022, I've not checked.

0:37:29 - (Isaac Kuhlman): It was totally a Weezer record. Then they do like, Van Weezer, and you're like, what the fuck are you doing? Like, knock this shit off. Like, this is terrible.

0:37:37 - (Anthony Merchant): This is why I think he's trolling people, because he does know how to write songs. But it's like, he'll give it to you for a second. Like, the album, I can't think of the name, but the one they put out in, like, 2014 with back to the shack and a couple. Like, that wasn't a terrible record, but, like, they'll give you that one, but then they'll, like, slap you in the face with the next three. Like, I swear he's like, trolling us as fans.

0:37:57 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah, yeah. And then you're right. So that was kind of my other point is that Rivers Cuomo, I think, had his heart broken twice as a member of Weezer. Once when Pinkerton flopped, basically commercially when it came out, and second when they were doing maladroit, which I still think is a good album.

0:38:13 - (Anthony Merchant): That's not a bad record. Not a bad record.

0:38:16 - (Isaac Kuhlman): But he tried to get fan. They basically kept leaking the songs out to fans as part of, like, an experiment to see which ones would make the, make the album in the end. And he got. He got bad suggestions. He thought that all the fan suggestions were just bad. Like, he was like, basically, this is a terrible idea. And he actually said the phrase, the suggestions were whack. I was like, well, that's a, that's a very nerdy way of saying that. But okay, so in the end, they basically chose their own songs for maladroit. But it was that thing. Like, I think he kept feeling like, I just have to release pop music because I need this band to survive. It is our income. It is a gravy train, so to say.

0:38:57 - (Isaac Kuhlman): But I also want to write my own stuff. So maybe, like, every three albums I can do that or something to that effect. But he still has to put out pretty consistently, like, you know, pretty generic rock, corporate rock music. And then every once in a while, you know, when there's, like, this lull in his downtime, he's like, oh, in between at records. But I just happen to make this whole album was like, well, that's the fucking best one. Why didn't you promote that one? What the fuck are you doing?

0:39:26 - (Anthony Merchant): And also, I think sometimes he's not happy that Pinkerton is now beloved in. If I'm being honest, I think he wishes people didn't like that record and they didn't. Not that I think they play much of it live. Like, when I've seen him, they just kind of do greatest hits. You might get El Scorch. Oh. But, like, I think he would rather.

0:39:42 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Infamy of that album.

0:39:44 - (Anthony Merchant): Like. But I like. To me, it's like, I don't know. I think he wants you to almost not. I think at that point, I think since it was a flop when it happened, I think he would rather. People just keep thinking that. I do. I truly think it bothers them that people list it so much as, like, such a great record and so beloved and stuff. And in a way, I understand it, but in another, it's just like, you can't predict that, like, you got big off something that you didn't think you were gonna get big off of. I don't think you wrote my name is Jonas thinking that's like, you know, like, that's a beloved album opener and stuff. Like, I just think they were putting something genuine out in the world.

0:40:15 - (Anthony Merchant): And then when he stops putting out the genuine stuff, it's genuinely not good anymore.

0:40:20 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah, that's pretty much my thoughts on Weezer. I mean, I do love. I love the first two by far the most, but there is a pocket of, like, maybe five or six albums that have enough good songs in there where I can still see these are really good albums by Weezer. The other seven to ten or whatever are genuinely mostly bad. And there might be a song or two on there that I'm like, okay, I can listen to this, but I. The Black album, the teal album of all covers. Jesus Christ.

0:40:46 - (Isaac Kuhlman): I hated all of that. Every second of that, I was like, why?

0:40:49 - (Anthony Merchant): I was okay with the green album, but after that, like, trying to do the color albums. Like, after, like, blue and green was actually. Red has a couple songs. I don't mind, but, like, yeah, you're being a dead horse. Like, okay, we get it. It's the four of you in front of a fucking a square of some kind of color on this album. Like, we. We get it. Mandy.

0:41:21 - (Isaac Kuhlman): That's the show for today. I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you learned anything or liked what you heard on the show today, please show us some support and subscribe to this channel and like, comment and share this video with a friend or put it up on social media. I hate to keep asking, but without those small actions, the YouTube bots pretty much ignore this channel. Putting these videos out is a lot of work. If you want to show your appreciation, please consider purchasing some of our musical accessories or merch from our store@poweredbyrock.com.

0:41:46 - (Isaac Kuhlman): you can read our blog and follow us in the links below as well. Those are the plugs and that's all I have. I'll see you soon for the next episode. Until then, rock on.