Women Are the New Rock Stars Keeping Rock Music Alive with Tamar Berk

by Isaac Kuhlman

Tamar Berk is a talented indie rock musician based in San Diego, known for her dynamic and genre-spanning sound. With roots in the Chicago music scene, Tamar has been influenced by a wide array of artists, from Suzanne Vega and Liz Phair to the Beatles and ELO. Over the last four years, she has released four distinct albums, the latest being Good Times for a Change. Tamar is also a devoted music producer, mastering her craft in her home studio to create meaningful and authentic music.

Episode Summary:

In this enlightening episode, host Isaac Kuhlman delves into the evolving landscape of rock music, specifically highlighting the surge of female musicians dominating the genre in recent years.

From established names like St. Vincent and Phoebe Bridgers to emerging bands like Wet Leg and Eliza and the Delusionals, Isaac explores the shift from a male-dominated genre to one now enriched by diverse female voices.

This context sets the stage for a deep conversation with indie rock artist Tamar Berk about her musical journey, the challenges women face in the industry, and her latest album, Good Times for a Change, releasing on September 6, 2024.

Throughout the episode, Tamar shares her journey into rock music, starting from her early days of self-teaching guitar in Chicago.

Influenced by pioneering female artists from the '80s and '90s, Tamar discusses how she evolved her sound while staying true to her confessional and storytelling roots.

The conversation touches on various themes, including the impact of the pandemic on female artists, the role of social media in propelling female musicians forward, and the shifting dynamics of the music industry.

Tamar also offers a behind-the-scenes look at her new album, discussing its themes of grief, change, and the emotional landscape that inspired her latest work.

Intro Music: Birds Love Filters "Colorado" - ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://youtu.be/dqD_jMhZGqU⁠⁠⁠⁠ Outro Music: Speedway Sleeper "Snail Mail" - ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://youtu.be/21-vX3bBagc⁠⁠⁠⁠ Please consider purchasing some cool merch or some musical instrument accessories at our site - ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://poweredbyrock.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ Indie Musicians - check out the FREE DIY Rock Career Playlist here - ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_2jRJsJubw&list=PL465-TazTQf5tZ9zGHitfmWQpYsbVlF99⁠⁠⁠⁠ You can also learn more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://diyrockcareer.com/⁠⁠⁠ Key Takeaways:

 

  • Evolution of Female Rock Musicians: Tamar discusses how female artists have gradually taken the forefront in rock, citing influences like Liz Phair and Alanis Morissette.

  • Challenges and Triumphs in Music Production: Insights into Tamar’s experiences navigating the often male-dominated music industry and how she overcame challenges to produce her own music.

  • Impact of the Pandemic and Social Media: How the pandemic has contributed to the rise of female artists and the role social media plays in building and maintaining a fan base.

  • Themes of the New Album: Exploration of Tamar's latest album, Good Times for a Change, revealing her personal struggles with grief and change, and her journey towards living in the present.

  • Future of Rock Music: Tamar’s perspective on where rock music is headed, particularly for female artists, and her hopes for more authentic artist development.

Resources:

Timeline:

00:00 - Episode Summary

01:31 - Tamar Berk's Perspective on the Diversification of Rock Music

27:30 - Female Rock Stars Can Cross Genres & Boundaries

38:49 - Good Times For A Change - The New Album from Tamar Berk

46:20 - "Good Impression" music video from Tamar Berk

49:16 - What Does Tamar Having Coming Up?

51:57 - What Tamar Hopes Will Happen for Female Rock Musicians

 

Transcript:

0:00:00 - (Isaac Kuhlman): In the past five to ten years, there's been a subtle change in the world of rock music, where what was seemingly a male dominated genre has now, by and large, been carried by the emergence of more and more female rock bands who are getting mainstream attention, from bands like Wet Leg, Emile and the Sniffers, Eliza and the Delusionals, and boy genius, to solo acts like St. Vincent and Phoebe Bridgers, and even including pop artists who have gone rock lately, such as Demi Lovato, Olivia Rodrigo and Billie Eilish.

0:00:25 - (Isaac Kuhlman): There seems to be a huge desire to bring rock music back from fans and artists alike, but it seems that the way it is making a comeback, by and large, is through female voices. Now, I want to be clear that in countries outside of the United States, there already have been major contributions from female rock bands that are wildly popular and successful, such as band Made in Japan, the Warning from Mexico, who just released their full length album in June of 2024, and other ones like Florence and the machine from the United Kingdom as examples.

0:00:51 - (Isaac Kuhlman): With the various genres in rock, it is hard to really say which ones are being reborn. But if we focus on pop rock and indie rock, then it is easy to see that the bands that generate the most interest right now are usually female led or all female bands. To discuss this topic and to dig into her own music, I brought on San Diego local indie rock artist Tamar Burke to talk about the rise of female rock musicians and discuss her upcoming album, good Times for a change, which comes out on September 6, 2024.

0:01:18 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Stick around to hear what she thinks of the glass ceiling being shattered in rock music. All right, so, Tamara Burke, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to come talk to us. That's going to be an absolutely epic conversation, I think, because many people, obviously, we were just talking before we came on about, when they talk about women's rock, they don't get too deep. They want to talk about the surface level, like, oh, what's your opinion about women in rock? It's like, well, that's a pretty vague and broad characterization or a question to ask. So before we dig into your perspective on female rock, let's talk about you, because obviously you are a female rock musician, but let's get up to speed with people who aren't familiar with you, and then we'll talk about your perspective on this diversification of rock music. But go ahead and give me kind of like a little bit about your journey into rock music, because in my opinion, you're kind of like, you know, a powerhouse rock musician that people need to hear about.

0:02:34 - (Isaac Kuhlman): And you create, you know, more relatable and accessible music to rock fans of editing genre. Right? So, like, you don't just stick to, like, pop rock or indie rock. You kind of delve into these other things. So kind of what inspired you to write this type of music and kind of flow around different boundaries here.

0:02:52 - (Tamar Berk): I bought my first guitar and I started, and I bought a little chord book and I started writing songs on chord book. But mostly, you know, I was trying to copy artists that I liked because I didn't have my own style. So I was like, listening to Suzanne Vega and Edie Brickell and Liz Phair and all these artists, artists that were starting to write really personal things about, I mean, Liz fair for sure, and that whole era with PJ Harvey and Hole and Vergassalt and all these bands that were starting to write, these women that were coming out and not being polite and not being just pretty and cute, you know.

0:03:35 - (Tamar Berk): Although I love the mazzy stars of the world and the Sundays and that whole genre of really pretty timid girl, I also loved that. But I had more to say. And I was very excited to be inspired when I moved to Chicago by all of this movement that was happening, particularly in the nineties. I mean, the eighties, female bands were great, like the Go ghosts and Bananarama and, you know, and the Bangles and I blondie, you know, and Madonna and like, those were huge influences. Cindy Lobber. But.

0:04:17 - (Tamar Berk): But I think I didn't as, I guess, songwriters, even though I knew they were, I just felt like at the time, they were more like performers, just like. And I just really wanted to start writing really intentional lyrics and stuff because I was going through shit, you know, we all do at that time of our lives. So, yeah, so that's kind of how it started. My first band was in Chicago. I decided I was gonna start a band.

0:04:50 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah. And so we're talking mid nineties, late nineties, somewhere in that era.

0:04:54 - (Tamar Berk): Yeah, exactly.

0:04:57 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, obviously at that time, music was changing a lot. Like the nineties for what everybody says. When I was living through the nineties, I was thinking to myself, like, man, this generation or this decade kind of sucks compared to the seventies and sixties. And then I look back in the two thousands, two thousand ten s and two thousand twenty s. I'm like, in that period of nineties, music changed so much. Like, you had pop punk, you had ska, you had emo, all these things, alternative, grunge, all these different new metal it was crazy.

0:05:31 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Even the female rock stars, Lilifair and lollapalooza.

0:05:35 - (Tamar Berk): Yes. Lilith fair, everything was coming around like.

0:05:37 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Holy shit, there was so much music in the nineties. Yes. When you're living through it, you didn't even. It didn't process, like, how much was going on. And now looking back, you're like, that was like the golden decade. If you look at, like, how much music kind of transformed itself, especially rock music in that one decade, I think so much to the point where everybody got burnt out on rock music for a while. So that's why it's kind of. It took a backseat to a lot of other. A lot of other genres. But when you're talking about, like, Liz Fair and PJ Harvey and stuff, that went, Lisa Loeb, another one. Like, when I first heard your music, I was like, yeah, Sheryl Crow, Lisa Loeb, Liz Ferret, PJ Harvey. This is, you know, Amy Mann.

0:06:14 - (Isaac Kuhlman): I can hear all of them.

0:06:16 - (Tamar Berk): I've gotten every single one of those comparisons. But, you know, it's hard to remove the influences that have created the landscape for you. You know, I put a lot of beatles in my stuff and a lot of yellow and a lot of classical chord progressions and classical, like, especially when I'm, you know, tracking some piano, I love doing arpeggios and, like, creating some, like, more classical lines and classical things. And you can't get away from the influences. And anytime I pick up a guitar, I think particularly because I was teaching myself in a tiny little studio apartment and, you know, in a, you know, crappy, tiny garbage apartment in Chicago, in the north side of Chicago and sitting in those four walls and trying to record on a four track, and you're teaching yourself, you know, nobody had money to go to lessons. It wasn't a thing. It was like, if you wanted to do this, you had to do it yourself.

0:07:17 - (Isaac Kuhlman): And these women have money to go to a studio and pay $2,000 an hour or whatever.

0:07:22 - (Tamar Berk): Exactly. And so I really. I really like, if these women can do it, I can. Now, the thing about the nineties that was interesting is because Nirvana came the scene in way and almost was the resurgent of resurgence of the band, the garage band or the, you know, the non hair metal band that was signed by the label and these huge tourists, it was suddenly like, these guys like me, like anyone.

0:07:59 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Did you. Did you tend to stick to this kind of, I guess, indie or rock or pop rock or did you just want to play all music and every music? Was there something that honed you in on one thing or another.

0:08:14 - (Tamar Berk): Well, the confessional nature of stuff like Liz Fair and PJ Harvey was what really inspired me, and I wanted to do that, but I didn't want to use my name. So then you create a band name, and then when you have a band, it feels different and the messages feel different because you have other people's perspectives and viewpoints. I still wrote all the songs, but, you know, they would put their two cent in. You know, I like that one. I don't like that one. I think that one rocks. And they would put, you know, so it felt more collaborative, even though maybe from their perspective, it's not so collaborative because it's still my songs. But I didn't necessarily tell them what to play on the drums or bass or whatever. I mean, to some degree, I'd be like, I like that. I don't like that. I did create the demos where I played everything.

0:09:14 - (Tamar Berk): So there was that sort of Pete Townsend thing where it's like, here's the song with all the harmonies and everything. You know, granted, it never sounded like that in the end because everybody's got their own thing. But, you know, to answer your question, I think. I think I would have. I'm back to that now. Whereas I started that way. But the bandaid, I think I became self conscious about my true, I guess, lyrical desires and what I wanted to say and put that aside for what I thought people wanted to hear at the time.

0:10:00 - (Tamar Berk): And so I feel like this is just me, in retrospect, thinking why I never really made it or never really made it back then.

0:10:13 - (Isaac Kuhlman): There's a lot of bands out there that when they write music, especially at the start, you, like, write whatever you want, right? Then they get kind of self conscious, and they're like, well, that one's not hitting as well as we thought. That one's not. And then they start to play reactively, right? So they just think, okay, well, if people like this particular song will just play more of that thing, and then they get self conscious, their music becomes a little bit less genuine to them, but, you know, it's still not completely disingenuous because they still like it. They created the first version of it, but they're just kind of recycling that authentic, that original authenticity a little bit too much.

0:10:52 - (Isaac Kuhlman): That's why you get bands that play the same song basically for 30 years, and you're like, how is this still going? Like, people still listen to this, but they're still famous. It's crazy. But I agree with you. I think that, especially from your perspective, I think it's even a little different than, say, the Foo fighters. And I'm not going to pick on the Foo Fighters because I love the Foo Fighters, but they have a very specific sound and they've been making that type of music for a long time.

0:11:16 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Very early on, it was great because it was something different. Now it's kind of like you've played that twelve, 1112 albums now.

0:11:24 - (Tamar Berk): From your perspective, I'm also not going to put down the Foo Fighters, but they're not my favorite. And I think there's. I think what you is, is that's part of maybe the reason I admire him greatly. But I wouldn't. I would never put the Foo Fighters on to listen to. It's just a personal taste thing. But I think I know what you're saying. And also, you made the point of the band trying to recreate themselves with what worked.

0:12:01 - (Tamar Berk): But it was also, at the time, what we were hearing on the radio and as a female musician, because I know we're going to talk about this, what we were hearing from people in the industry, you need to do this because this is what Elena S. Morse says. You need to do this once the two thousands came, because Britney Spears is doing this. You need, like, it was, it was never like, do your own thing, which is more how it is today.

0:12:30 - (Tamar Berk): Yeah, it's more find your own thing. Just like in tick tock, everybody has their own thing and then people find that and like, you back then, it was like, we know this works. Do that.

0:12:45 - (Isaac Kuhlman): You know, and I was gonna say the same thing from a female perspective back then, especially as a female perspective, you know, you have this, you know, male rock stars back then kind of had this bit of a leash where they could go out and try something creatively, like free. And if it worked, the record label is going to be like, genius. You guys are, you know, led Zeppelin, your fucking geniuses or whoever, you know, they had this leash. Whereas, like, female rock musicians, it was always like, here's your narrow kind of set of parameters.

0:13:14 - (Isaac Kuhlman): And you kind of got to work in there because this is what Hart did, this is what the Bengals did. This is what, you know, whoever else did. And go, goes. And blondie, if you don't do this, you're not a female rock musician. And then, you know, Alanis Morissette kind of did her own thing, kind of stirred up some shit, and then it became, like a little bit more free for a lot of women to kind of do their own thing. I think you know, all the other people we mentioned did as well.

0:13:37 - (Isaac Kuhlman): But I think Alanis Morissette really broke that mold wide open and said, I'm not really going to listen to what you're going to tell me. Even though she did have a big record label, I think it was maybe she was canadian, so she's just like, fuck it. Like, maybe I can just get away with it and see what happens.

0:13:52 - (Tamar Berk): But, you know, it's hard to say because there were female musicians doing way cooler shit than she was, but she was the mainstreamer that, like, hit the airwaves in a hard way, like, in a major way where it was aggressive and, I mean, although Hoel and Courtney Love certainly did that, but she was lumped in, I think, a bit with the grunge scene versus, you know, again, the band name whole versus Elena Smorissett. And there is something to be said about that. Like, you know, I am.

0:14:34 - (Tamar Berk): I think people still. And maybe it's the same with, you know, male bands and also male, like, solo artists. Artists, like, you do have to categorize them in a way, but I think with women, it's a little different because maybe. Maybe I'm just seeing it that way. But, you know, you look at a female musician, a solo artist, and you also categorize their. I. Their sound, their look, and their vibe. Like, you know, and I've gotten a lot of different things, but because I write such a different eclectic kind of stuff, like, I go from a pop punk song, like, on this new forthcoming album, good times for a change, and it's out in September.

0:15:29 - (Tamar Berk): I have a pop pop punk song that's like fast and furious kind of, you know, very verruxal, very Olivia Rodrigo.

0:15:37 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah.

0:15:37 - (Tamar Berk): And then I have a really quiet, sad kind of song that's very Lana del Rey ish. You know, I don't really fit into a category, but I do fit into, I guess, pop rock maybe in depop, I don't know.

0:15:55 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah, I think. I think overall, that's what I would say is, like, you're pop rock artist, but there's nothing wrong with that. Like, pop just means it sounds good to me. I mean, pop is so overrated as a term. Like, people like, oh, you can't be a pop artist. I'm like, well, if you want to be successful, you have to be a pop artist because there's no way you'll be, you know, popular without the pop. Right? You have to sound good. Like, I know there's, like, progressive rock bands, metal bands, and all that stuff. That are I anti pop and I get that, like, there is an underground scene of all that and there always will be hardcore brands, all that stuff. Right. But, yeah, being on the radio is a little bit different. You know, being, you know, playing arena tours, you're always gonna be pop, like, and if you want to aspire to be that, you'll have to have some sort of pop element in it. So I have no problem with pop. I.

0:16:38 - (Isaac Kuhlman): I've always said, like, you know, if you want to. Pop music is what makes people want to sing along. It's what makes people want to dance. Go to pop music.

0:16:47 - (Tamar Berk): I love pop music.

0:16:47 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Buy your stuff, right? That's the element that makes people want to do that.

0:16:51 - (Tamar Berk): It is. And I can't not write a catchy, pop poppy song. Like, I try to go in different directions, but inevitably there's always some sort of hook in there. Like, there is no way I could write something so mathy or weird that it doesn't have a hook somewhere. That's partially my brain, though also, I do have some OCD tendencies. So when you have that, especially for music and art, a repetitive nature is calming to my brain.

0:17:28 - (Tamar Berk): And in pop music, things repeat, phrases and melodies repeat, and it's calming to me. It's actually a lot of the reason when I write, I enjoyed. I know this sounds strange, but I listen to my songs a lot, but it's also strange.

0:17:46 - (Isaac Kuhlman): I still listen to all the songs I write.

0:17:48 - (Tamar Berk): Yeah, yeah. It's very calming, too, because it's like something that my brain reacts to in a way that feels like a melody I need to hear. I don't know how else to put it.

0:18:00 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Like, yeah, a great way to put it because it's like, you know, I wrote this song when I felt this way once. Now I feel that way, or I want to feel that way again, so I want to play that song because that's what it reminds me of. It's not nostalgia. It's like past and present in your soul or something weird like that.

0:18:17 - (Tamar Berk): Yes, for sure, lyrically, but even musically. Because when you're talking about pop music, it repeats. Parts repeat. The catchy parts repeat.

0:18:32 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Do you think that, like. Cause obviously you started writing these four new albums under your. Your new, you know, your own name. Yes, basically in 2020. A little earlier than that, but you started releasing them over the last four years. Do you think that the pandemic had, like, you know, and, like, you know, there's this, like, growing awareness of, like, mental health, equality and equity, social justice and all that? Stuff. Do you think some of that is kind of helping to propel female artists forward, or do you feel this was kind of naturally coming after just, you know, so many years of, like, building towards it?

0:19:08 - (Tamar Berk): I think it's all of the above, honestly, because, and I can only speak for myself, but I know that when I was younger and would go to a studio to record, it was just, you know, it was a sausage fest, to be honest. I mean, I hate saying it like that, but, like, it was always a, oh, it's a girl band, or, oh, I've heard some of the most offensive comments.

0:19:36 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah.

0:19:37 - (Tamar Berk): In a studio setting where I'm paying and I just, it's just very shocking, you know, and part of it, and I bring this up because I think it was probably not just me, but at that point I was just like, fuck this. I need to learn how to do myself because I'm not going to sit in a room with some dude who has an opinion about me and calls me or thinks that I'm super directorial or I don't know what I'm talking about or has to argue with my opinion or my thoughts or I rude about my playing.

0:20:21 - (Tamar Berk): You know, all of the above has happened to me and I guarantee it's happened to other women. And I'm not saying that I'm not angry at a, I'm not angry about it anymore because guess what? I fucking fixed it and now I know what to fucking do. And I'm producing my own stuff and I use pro tools and I use the professional stuff and I still have people that work with me who are men, but they also are different kinds of men.

0:20:58 - (Tamar Berk): I don't know how else to say that. But there are men that, like, really understand a woman's sensibility and how they communicate, and there are those that don't. And when you're trying to create something with the kind of men that is more about their ego than about working with you, it's awful. It's really awful. And it, it makes, it just, it makes the whole thing so negative. And for me, when this has happened, it puts such a damper on my songs and my album. And I can't tell you how many times I, I was like, how dare you fuck with my art and put a negative energy into it because you're a jerk.

0:21:51 - (Tamar Berk): You know, I mean, I hate going into that place, but there's been a lot of times where I'm like, how dare you? Don't work with me, then don't work with me. If you put your negative bullshit energy because you have some ego or you have an opinion, like, just be nice. Just be like, yay. Maybe it's not working out working with you. Like, I have some other suggestions or, you know, hey, not everyone works in gels well together. There's nothing wrong with that, you know, but I just.

0:22:26 - (Tamar Berk): I can't tell you how many times. And it's like, okay, fucking get some balls and be honest. Just be honest. And luckily, I saw that solved the problem. I have my own studio. I produce my own shit. Of course I need help. We all. Nobody does things in a silo. And. But the people that I trust, I trust. And so to answer your question, the pandemic probably made a lot of younger artists, women, female, who were, like, songwriters have to, like, go to and get some sort of recording device.

0:23:06 - (Tamar Berk): Because, like, I was forced to do that because of my experiences. I was like, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna fucking do that anymore. I'm gonna do it myself. But I think maybe some of the younger artists, the pandemic said, okay, well, you can't record in a studio, but you're playing and you're writing. You better go buy yourself a four track. You better go buy yourself some sort of daw logic or pro tools and learn it.

0:23:30 - (Tamar Berk): And I love that because that's why there's such an explosion now. And just women. I do think the pandemic was, like, big force in making people, like, sit down and learn some kind of program.

0:23:44 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah, I don't think that there was, like, necessarily an explosion of female artists after the pandemic or anything. But I think right now, it seems like in the world of rock music, if you are a more successful band or artist, it's usually female led or female driven, which is pretty cool because, like, males have, you know, typically been the ones playing rock music for so long. But. And it's not to say that there's not a ton of rock bands out there that are male driven or male bands. There's a ton, right? There's no end to it.

0:24:19 - (Isaac Kuhlman): But I think that the ones that are cropping up and becoming more popular seem to be women fronted or women driven or all female, you know?

0:24:27 - (Tamar Berk): Agree women are killing it right now.

0:24:29 - (Isaac Kuhlman): This many kind of come up at the top so quickly, I think before.

0:24:33 - (Tamar Berk): I agree, they're killing it right now for sure. You know? And I still think in the end of the day, maybe don't think of yourself as a woman or man in art right from the heart, because we're all human anyway, so that's kind of where I'm standing. I can't get away from being a female because I'm female in a relationship. I'm also a mother. I can't get away from that. But I still try to write in a universal way that doesn't necessarily depict just the femaleness of it.

0:25:12 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah.

0:25:13 - (Tamar Berk): And I think, you know, I think.

0:25:14 - (Isaac Kuhlman): That'S what most good songwriters will do, is they'll try to pick something that anybody. Both man, woman, they, them, us, whatever. Right.

0:25:22 - (Tamar Berk): Yeah.

0:25:23 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Understand that as, like, heartbreak or happiness, sadness, like. And the intentions. Right. Not the specific, like, hey, this is what I went through because I'm a woman, or this is what I went through because I'm a man. If you have to point that out, I think it really cheapens the song.

0:25:40 - (Tamar Berk): It's hard because I. I don't. I do see men getting up there with really good bodies and, like, you know, and dancing around and gyrating, but I. It's not in the same level.

0:25:53 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah.

0:25:54 - (Tamar Berk): Am I wrong?

0:25:56 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Well, I mean, not essentially, but then you have, you know, stuff like magic Mike in the movie. Right. So that is essentially strippers. Right.

0:26:04 - (Tamar Berk): I mean, but they're not hiding the fact that they're strippers. Like, that's his job.

0:26:09 - (Isaac Kuhlman): They're trying to be. Trying to be, you know, singer songwriter that also strips.

0:26:13 - (Tamar Berk): Right, right.

0:26:14 - (Isaac Kuhlman): That's just one thing. I think, as male rock musicians, I think they're not required to, you know, show off their bodies. If they want to, they can. Whereas a lot of females feel like they may have.

0:26:26 - (Tamar Berk): Might have to in order to get. Exactly. So that is what ties up this conversation with a nice little bow, is what you said. So it's not like I'm criticizing it because I know the kind of pressure that. That, you know, is happening. But then when you look like somebody who's fucking awesome, like Chapel Roan, who one day might be wearing that along with her entire band, but then the next day will be wearing a football jersey, and because she goes off her show, she's wearing something else. So that's, like, her thing, you know?

0:27:02 - (Tamar Berk): I mean, to each of their own. To each their own. I don't get inspired by that. I get inspired by. I literally get inspired by, you know, somebody like Lana Del Rey, who literally will just stand there and sing.

0:27:20 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah.

0:27:21 - (Tamar Berk): And I just feel so emotional about it because she's telling a story that's so true to her. So that's just me, though, you know?

0:27:42 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah. And we kind of already kind of delved into some of the questions about, you know, kind of how the new rock stars, you know, have become women, but versus just men. But I think that there's a couple specific things, things that help contribute to this as well. And I think the first thing is, you know, the ability for females to jump genres and nobody bat an eye out. Like, post Malone's probably the, you know, maybe Machine Gun Kelly are kind of one or two of the only ones, maybe Justin Bieber a little bit, I guess, kind of jump genres and still, like, not nobody really care, right? But, like, female artists have kind of always done this, right? Like, even, you know, Shania and Twain was writing basically rock songs back in the day, but you got, like, demi Lovato now you've got so many other musicians who can just make any sort of, like you said, Olivia Rodrigo is a good example.

0:28:33 - (Isaac Kuhlman): They just make any kind of music that they want. Do you think that that kind of helps with the overall appeal of female musicians? Whereas rock music, as men rock musicians, they usually think, well, I gotta stick within my own wheelhouse, which is this type of rock grunge or whatever it is, right?

0:28:49 - (Tamar Berk): I don't know how men think about it.

0:28:53 - (Isaac Kuhlman): I'll tell you. That's kind of how men think about it is like, if I go out and write a pop song, people are going to think I'm a sellout, right? Like, that's what they think. They think. Everybody thinks that they're a fraud now.

0:29:03 - (Tamar Berk): I see. So then there. There is some sort of pressure on that because I can see that. I can see that men have sort of a. So that they're pigeonholed immediately based on their first album or whatever they put out. And rock is so masculine. It's so, like, it's still got that old school vibe to it. But then you've got, like, Emila and the sniffers, Amy and this, you know, she is. She is awesome, and she is as tough as they come.

0:29:37 - (Tamar Berk): That's definitely rock and roll. I mean, in every sense of the word, you know, I mean, Beyonce deciding put a country album out, I think maybe it is easier, but I also think that women are more likely to be trailblazers and are just gonna start doing that, too. Like, women are going to, like, say, try new things, especially if they have a following on. So, like, if you. You know, but that is today, okay.

0:30:17 - (Tamar Berk): And this could be an entire podcast on its own, because I've listened to podcasts based on just this thing, which is Liz Fair. So, you know, Liz Fair put out exile and Guyville and then wit smart, which are, like, in my top five albums of all time, both of them. And she puts out Liz Phaer, where she worked with the Matrix and put out some of the most awful pop rock songs. I was so sad. So sad. Now she.

0:30:54 - (Tamar Berk): Did she jump genres? I think it was more how they were produced also, because as a producer myself, she wanted a big hit and she needed a big hit, and she went to the Matrix, who worked with Avril Lavigne and all that. And they just, like, produced the shit out of the songs and made them sound so of the time. And I know she still likes those and still likes singing a handful of those because I went to see her play.

0:31:27 - (Tamar Berk): But the subject matter is just so. It's just not. It's what you. We were saying earlier. It was. It's like. It doesn't feel authentic. It just felt like, ugh. But there's that, you know, production of a song could be the genre, you know, so. Okay, so Taylor Swift, she probably writes and everything she writes on her guitar probably has sort of a country twang to it, right?

0:31:52 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah.

0:31:53 - (Tamar Berk): No matter what. Yeah. But if she goes to whatever his name is, the guy that she's working with, he's gonna put his twist on it, which is gonna make it some sort of mellow piano thing, because she'll say, I want it to sound like Lana Del Rey, which she basically stole his whole team and her whole team and used, like, the same team that Lana Del Rey uses to make that kind of piano ballady, catchy pop stuff.

0:32:22 - (Tamar Berk): So do you consider that genre jumping, or is it. You know, it's also how it's produced and the instrumentation. You know, maybe men putting out a pop song. I can see people calling it, like, power pop is sort of that weird genre of, like, bad finger and, you know, like, wimpy, skinny guys with tiny pants and bell bottoms and, you know, the power pop look if you go in that direction. But, like, I don't know. Power pop is also rock.

0:33:02 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah.

0:33:02 - (Tamar Berk): It's just great harmonies and great songs. So. And this is said by many people, like, rock is technically dead.

0:33:11 - (Isaac Kuhlman): I did a whole episode about it.

0:33:13 - (Tamar Berk): Yeah. I don't know. You know, but Beatles were also considered a rock and roll band.

0:33:19 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah. Even though back then they technically would have been an r and b band, but, yeah.

0:33:23 - (Tamar Berk): Yeah. So the terms are fluid, I guess. As fluid as the. Is gender fluidity. It's all what you bring to the table. I mean, people could argue about the shit, and they do. Oh, my God, Facebook, they argue and argue and argue. Now, what's power? What's even power? Pop? Like, that's like such a big argument. But, you know, it's just like, kind of, you come to the table with what you think rock and roll is, and generally it's how you were brought up.

0:33:57 - (Tamar Berk): I mean, I think when you're a kid, you discover music somehow. Some older brother, some older sister, or some radio station or something happened where you're like, whoa, you know? And so that being said, there are some kids that were brought up on Britney Spears, and that was what was playing. There was no Led Zeppelin. They weren't listening to those stations.

0:34:20 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah.

0:34:21 - (Tamar Berk): So is that rock and roll or is this pop music? You know?

0:34:30 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Well, another thing, because, you know, that was kind of the first part is the genre fluidity or whatever we want to call it. That's kind of the first part of what I think maybe helps propel females to be able to reach new heights and, you know, broaden their audiences faster. But another thing I think is that social media helps quite, in quite a way for female artists, because most female rock artists, or just females in general, are happy to use social media, kind of talk about their day or do makeup tutorials or whatever they get on social media and use social media.

0:35:06 - (Tamar Berk): That's me.

0:35:07 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Whereas men are always thinking like, oh, God, this is so annoying. I don't want to do this. I don't want to be on here. It's kind of like.

0:35:16 - (Tamar Berk): You are right. I do think women have an advantage of it. I don't know why. Maybe. Okay. And I like throwing this out there. As a female, we are used to being looked at and also a beauty standard, which is we don't. We don't necessarily want to have a beauty, but there is a beauty standard in the world which is requiring us to. To be looked at, to be compared. And maybe it's in our DNA. I'm going back to caveman shit. You know, like, that a man or, you know, the male gaze is for, you know, boy, I'm really getting deep here. But, like, for mating purposes, you know, we want to be attractive. We've. Maybe it's in our DNA to, like, look good and feel attractive. That's not always for the male gaze. Sometimes for the female gaze, I mean, whatever floats your boat.

0:36:17 - (Tamar Berk): But I do think we have it in us to want to look good and to feel appreciated for our beauty or our being more so than men. I think, although it is shifting, I do see a lot of, wow. Some, you know, men getting out there and doing their thing and weightlifting and showing off their bodies and stuff. So it's definitely, like, changing. But I think that women are more apt to share and feel. It is an element, like, for me, and I can only speak for me personally.

0:36:55 - (Tamar Berk): I really like the people that like my music, and I like talking to them and I like sharing with them and they dm me and they message me and they tell me that they like the album and they tell me which songs they like and they follow and they try to watch the videos when I send them links and they post on my Instagram and they like stuff. And, like, for me, you know, it's also a relationship that you have with people that like your music.

0:37:26 - (Tamar Berk): So that's been building over time. I mean, when I started out in 2020, putting the restless dreams of youth out, I started with zero followers on Instagram. You know, I had to, like, connect with people. I actually really like that. That's another part of this that I like. Yes, I like the, you look great. Your hair looks great. I still that. But I also like when some random.

0:37:53 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Guy from Brazil is like, oh, you're so hot. It's like, okay, thanks.

0:37:56 - (Tamar Berk): Yeah, but I'm like. But I always respond with, hey, check out the link in my bio. To listen to my music. I will always. I am the.

0:38:05 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Appreciate it. Thanks. Listen to the music.

0:38:07 - (Tamar Berk): Yes. I will always sell my music first before anything else. But everybody knows that, like, knows me. Like, they know that, like, this is my art. And if you were responding to songs, like, it's very meaningful for me.

0:38:23 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah.

0:38:24 - (Tamar Berk): Because, like, I can listen. Like you. We can listen to our own shit and be super happy, but it's so much more meaningful to share it because then you know that, like, to get those kinds of DM's where somebody's like, I love, you know, you look great in that photo. And by the way, I love track three or something like that.

0:38:45 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah.

0:38:46 - (Tamar Berk): You know, it's just, like, makes your day. It's just funny because things always change. And so maybe what you're saying is, like, 1020 years down the line, they might read this, but, like, some of the songs that were huge hits, like, are offensive as fuck today.

0:39:17 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah.

0:39:18 - (Tamar Berk): You know, like Nick Gilder, hot child in the city, or there's a bunch.

0:39:25 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Of songs by warrant or something like that.

0:39:27 - (Tamar Berk): Yeah. Or even that.

0:39:28 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Anything by mocking crew.

0:39:29 - (Tamar Berk): Yeah. Hey, little girl, is your dad at home? Like.

0:39:33 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Oh, yeah.

0:39:35 - (Tamar Berk): You know, like, yeah. Like, I mean, it's still Bruce Prince, and I love Bruce. Bruce and you know, the times, the times, they are a changin as Mister Dillon said. So.

0:39:48 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Well, speaking of times that are changing and wildly offensive albums 40 years from now, let's talk about your new album, good times for a change.

0:39:55 - (Tamar Berk): Oh, God, I hope it's not gonna be wildly offensive.

0:39:58 - (Isaac Kuhlman): I feel like it's pretty 40 years from now.

0:40:00 - (Tamar Berk): Okay. 40 years from now. Yes. So this is it. But. Oh, okay, wait, because I guess what I just got in today. Hold on, I'm gonna show you. Hold on. Got the vinyl in.

0:40:16 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Nice.

0:40:18 - (Tamar Berk): So the vinyl. And literally when I got home today, just getting ready for this podcast.

0:40:25 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Nice.

0:40:27 - (Tamar Berk): This album is the fourth in four years, and it. I am in an in between state right now, in between wanting to move forward with my life. A lot of the things I hold on to are the grief and mourning for my father's death, which still just changed the very essence of who I am.

0:40:53 - (Isaac Kuhlman): And, yeah, it was 2021, I think, right?

0:40:56 - (Tamar Berk): Yeah. And the sadness from that, it's like when somebody dies, that is like the most important, like, rock figure in your life. Like a literal, like the person you lose, like, every sense of anything. And I really changed a lot. And also because so many, so now four years have passed, I feel guilty sometimes not thinking about him every day. And I'm holding on to the sadness because I, like, I don't want to let that go because all he is now is in my head. He's just living there.

0:41:36 - (Tamar Berk): And that's a lot of what this album is about. Like, when you don't want to let go of certain things, but, you know, you need to. You kind of live in this twilight of the in between. And this album, you know, the title good times for change is the first line of Amorcy song or Smith song. Please, please, please let me get what I want. He sings, you know, good times for a change. And I love that line. I've loved that line forever.

0:42:10 - (Tamar Berk): And I think that you try to convince yourself, like, good times for a change, you know, or good times to make a change in your life, and you just sit there and you think, can I change? Do I want to change? Is it a good time for change? Are these good times for a change? And all of those meanings on this album is what it's about. And if you listen to the lyrics, it's a lot about that being in between and just accepting the present.

0:42:44 - (Tamar Berk): I heard, and this is on the last song called coming around to me again, you know, that being in the past and being in the future are just not safe. And they're not helpful because they don't exist anymore, or they don't exist anymore or do exist at all yet. And really, the safest place is to be in the present and to exist in your body and in the moment. Otherwise, you're not really living. And it's a heavy idea, but I think that's what this album is about.

0:43:24 - (Tamar Berk): A lot about relationship communication. That's a big theme in my music in general, is just, like, communication issues, because I struggle with that and overthink things and tend to spiral. So. Yeah, and then there's a couple songs on here that were from the past, demos that I brought back to life because I thought they fit the album really well. And, you know, it's always one of those things, though, to be honest, where you.

0:43:58 - (Tamar Berk): You are chasing your last song that you wrote for me. Not everybody doesn't think that way, but I do. I think, like, I'm only as good as the last song I wrote and the, you know, the last thing I did, and a lot of people really liked tiny injuries, and. And it was a really good album, and I was surprised at how many people really liked that and actually were introduced to me from that album because that first single on that album really reached farther than their album.

0:44:31 - (Tamar Berk): That was exciting, but then that kind of put some pressure a little bit on this one. Like, I hope people like it as much.

0:44:42 - (Isaac Kuhlman): I really like the up tempo songs, but I also like, you know, you know, good impression. That's not a lie. And you trigger me, I think, are probably three of my favorite songs because uptempo. But then, like, the end song coming around. Coming around to me again, that. That epicness of that, like, even just the way it kind of ends. Epic.

0:44:59 - (Tamar Berk): Yes.

0:44:59 - (Isaac Kuhlman): You know, those big crashes and stuff in there, and it's like, that's. I think. Was that the song you're talking about? It was kind of like Lana Del Rey inspired.

0:45:06 - (Tamar Berk): Yeah. The beginning, definitely. In fact, the end with the drums was. Came to me in some. In sort of a inspiring moment on my walk when I listened to the song, because actually, it ended without any drum. It just ended, and I felt unfinished about it. I felt unsure about. I felt like it didn't have the impact I wanted. And so because I was. It was unfinished. It was an unfinished emotion. Like good night, but it's not good night. It's never good night, and I don't ever have good nights. I don't sleep well. I, you know, like, literally.

0:45:46 - (Isaac Kuhlman): To be continued. God damn it.

0:45:48 - (Tamar Berk): Yes. And so I figured I. I'm just gonna do this epic fade out with some fucking hardcore drums and big muff pedal and just kind of go crazy. My favorites currently, it changes, but I think my favorite currently is I don't mind. I really like that one because I like the. The story behind it and the intention behind it. It's very in it. It's very much about the theme and. I don't know, coming around to me again right now and that's not a lie.

0:46:27 - (C): I'm gonna make a good impression on you I swear if it's the last.

0:46:37 - (Tamar Berk): Thing I do.

0:46:41 - (C): I'm gonna make a.

0:46:43 - (Tamar Berk): Good impression on you cause historically speaking.

0:46:50 - (C): It'S not something I do.

0:46:54 - (Tamar Berk): They say.

0:46:55 - (C): That I put up with fight but I say I miss understood they say I always have to be right but I think I just know what I have for situations. I'm gonna try to make a connection with you cause I know it's all overdue. I think I might just mention to you that I know that up till now it's been a real issue. You say that I won't be that's not exactly true. And I might be too intense or I just miss understood.

0:48:22 - (Tamar Berk): Some kind of.

0:48:23 - (C): Impression on you I'm not sure what but I'll get back to you. Say I'm never satisfied but I know I miss understood and I'll never ever start a fight but I will not think about you cause maybe I just don't care and why am I not here the one make a good impression. Make a good impression. Make a good impression. Make a good impression.

0:49:29 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Let's talk about what you have coming up. Obviously I know about your album release, but let me know kind of what do you have more coming? Like, obviously, you're obviously going to keep writing songs. You're going to keep recording songs. But like you said, you don't play a lot of shows, but when you do, it's kind of a special thing. Talk to me.

0:49:46 - (Tamar Berk): We have a big show coming up. Yeah, we have a big show in Chicago. I'm opening for material issue. They go by material reissue now because Jim, you know, is no longer with them. But the two surviving members have.

0:50:03 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Phil.

0:50:04 - (Tamar Berk): And Gaudi filling in for Jim's parts. And they're amazing. And I'm flying to Chicago with my band and we're gonna open for them because I'm friends with Mike. So Mike Zelenko, the drummer, played in my band Starball. And so I'm gonna come out to a solo set. And then at the end of my solo set, starball is gonna have a few songs ending my set and Mike's gonna actually come out and play on those.

0:50:31 - (Isaac Kuhlman): I feel like that's some spoiler alert there.

0:50:33 - (Tamar Berk): I know it's gonna be awesome and I'm gonna have, luckily, all my albums, you know, I'll have the new record there to sell. That's a big one for me. It's sort of a homecoming, you know, to go back to a place that you kinda cut your teeth on. Making music is cool. And then after that, I'm just gonna do some local stuff. I like doing song singer songwriter nights because it's less stressful. And also I can work on honing the storytelling part of my singing and how I present the song.

0:51:08 - (Tamar Berk): And I like when people respond to my song in that sort of arena because it's so naked and just in bare. And if the song makes an impact that way, then, you know, it's got something to it and it's got some teeth. You know, another thing that's on the horizon for me that I just. I'm gonna try to do some more live streaming. And the live streaming would be in conjunction with, like, playing and telling stories about some of my songs and then also maybe playing some influences of me. So I'm like, this is something I may want to do is put a little show together, like a live streaming show, because I love music.

0:52:10 - (Isaac Kuhlman): From your perspective, what do you hope that rock music will become for you and other female artists in the years to come? This is where you can get that philosophy degree. All in 130. 2nd answer.

0:52:25 - (Tamar Berk): It's tough because there's so much music as it is that a lot of really amazing talent, I would say me included, are just. Are gonna stay in our little tiny lane because we don't have the capacity behind us to be signed by a major. And major labels aren't doing what they used to do with people anyway. There's no artist development. There's like, oh, if you have a hit on TikTok, then we better fucking give her a million books and try to make some money off of it.

0:53:00 - (Tamar Berk): And so many people, I've seen horror stories like that. Some female musicians that I follow on TikTok, you know, they had their, their head, some sort of viral hit, and then they got scooped up from a label and then you never heard of them from them again. What do I hope would happen? I hope that it would continue, that everybody can do their own thing. I mean, you've got your playlists, you've got, you've got there.

0:53:25 - (Tamar Berk): It's moving in that direction of, like, true, you know, genre based playlists and sound based playlist and motion. You can go on Spotify and find a playlist for everything. Breakfast, making music, you know, brushing my teeth, music like, it's happening already.

0:53:46 - (Isaac Kuhlman): That's the most rockin one right there. Have you heard that playlist? It's awesome.

0:53:50 - (Tamar Berk): But I'm going to. I just made that up, but there probably is one. But I feel like, I think what I would wish to happen is artist development comes back and that labels start to look for artists that have put out music. They're on their own for a couple years already and are pushing their stuff and promoting their stuff and are serious about it and not putting their money into a one hit wonder on TikTok that they got lucky on.

0:54:20 - (Tamar Berk): But, like, looking at their backlog, looking at their life story and looking at that artist development, because those are the ones that are going to be the long term investments anyway. That's my wish. What I think is going to happen is just more diversification, and we're just going to have to push more and pay more to get an ad on Instagram. We're going to have to pay more to have people write about us.

0:54:50 - (Tamar Berk): There's already these sites now, you know, where you, you know, you want a press release?

0:54:59 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Give us $15.

0:55:00 - (Tamar Berk): Yes.

0:55:01 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah, I know what you're talking about.

0:55:03 - (Tamar Berk): And that, you know, in some aspects, I kind of, I like that if you get responses from people that are for real, real, authentic publications.

0:55:16 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah.

0:55:16 - (Tamar Berk): But there's garbage dumps out there. That garbage dumps. And then you're expected as the artist. It always comes back to the artist because you're passionate, and they prey on that passion. So, you know. Yeah, there's my philosophy right there.

0:55:32 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah. And I think for, you know, a lot of people, and I'm not trying to, I don't want to be labeled here as mansplaining any of what we're saying, but for me, when I hear what you're saying is, it seems like, you know, when people talk about paintings, right, they say the paintings, not the story. It's the artist that painted it. That's the story. That's why you pay a million dollars, right?

0:55:50 - (Tamar Berk): Yes.

0:55:51 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Music is the exact same fucking thing, but people only want to look at the music and go, this is all I hear and see. So this is what my senses are like. It's, you know, when you see, you know, a bunch of splattered paint, you go, that's nothing. But then you're like, actually, this is the story of this person's life. This.

0:56:06 - (Tamar Berk): And that's why these people disappear, because, you know, think about that one girl, Gayle. I don't even know her last name. And she had, like, that a B C D E. Thought you and your mom and your sister and your. Remember that song?

0:56:19 - (Isaac Kuhlman): I'm gonna have to remove that for the copyright, obviously, but.

0:56:22 - (Tamar Berk): Oh, really?

0:56:23 - (Isaac Kuhlman): I don't know.

0:56:25 - (Tamar Berk): Probably not, because it wasn't even that.

0:56:26 - (Isaac Kuhlman): You won't be like, you can't even have that.

0:56:28 - (Tamar Berk): But she was everywhere. And on the Tonight show and everything. I haven't heard anything from. She's probably super talented, but they scooped her up on a major label. They tried to make as much money as they could on her, that song.

0:56:48 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah.

0:56:49 - (Tamar Berk): And I haven't heard a thing. And maybe it's because I just don't her. But, like, she was in my feed every second, you know?

0:56:56 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah.

0:56:56 - (Tamar Berk): She's just one example. Example. So.

0:57:00 - (Isaac Kuhlman): And I feel like anybody.

0:57:01 - (Tamar Berk): But it is.

0:57:01 - (Isaac Kuhlman): It's a pretty decent song, but it's like, can you repeat that? Do different stuff. Can you. What's your longevity fact?

0:57:07 - (Tamar Berk): And it's like what you said, though. I wasn't that interested in her as a person. She was. She didn't have a life story that drew me in. She was just. She wrote a really good song, if nothing else happened to your career. But you had a one hit wonder, and then you had to stop, and I was like, well, was it a really good one hit wonder? Like, aha. You know, like, take on me, and there's like, yeah, it was like a one hit one that took over the world. I'm like, I'd be okay with that if I. If I liked the song.

0:57:44 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah. I mean, what they mean by stop. Right. So, like, if you had to stop playing publicly or altogether, like, if I wrote one really good song that became famous and, you know, made a couple million dollars, would I stop playing music completely?

0:57:57 - (Tamar Berk): Right.

0:57:58 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Not. I don't think there's any way I could do that, but.

0:58:00 - (Tamar Berk): Right, right.

0:58:01 - (Isaac Kuhlman): If I had to stop releasing music publicly, I'd be like, I'll take $2 million and be okay with that. Yeah. Because I've never made that money before.

0:58:08 - (Tamar Berk): I know, I know. I think it was more like, would you be happy just being known for this one song? Yeah, I think that was more of the question. And I'm like, well, let's put it this way. If you, like, take on me by aha a lot, you might have explored their catalog. Like, it always at least gives the opportunity to explore the artist's catalog. Like, at least it's out there for people to actually have that opportunity rather than not being out there at all.

0:58:41 - (Tamar Berk): Yeah.

0:58:41 - (Isaac Kuhlman): There's a lot of bands that, you know, I've heard on the radio growing up, and I'm like, no desire to listen to that, but it is a popular song, so I'm forced to listen to it. But then there's bands that, like, especially back in the nineties before, you know, streaming music, you'd hear one song, you'd go by their album, because it's the only way you could actually take it home with you. Right. So you're like, I remember, like, cracker, for example, that band, cracker. And I was like, yes, I love that song. I think it was low or something like that. Yes, I love the song you went and bought. The album was like, eh, but that song is good. Like, there's some good stuff in there, but it was like, couldn't live without it.

0:59:14 - (Tamar Berk): Yes. And you can tell, a lot of times you can tell from the single what the album's gonna be.

0:59:20 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah.

0:59:21 - (Tamar Berk): Like, I mean, let's talk about another one.

0:59:23 - (Isaac Kuhlman): I was like, yeah, and then I bought the album.

0:59:25 - (Tamar Berk): I was like, yes, exactly. Or like, marcy's playground.

0:59:32 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah, or people still love that band. Like, you know, if you mentioned Marcy's playground to some people, they're like, what do you mean, that one song? They have tons of good song. Like, jesus.

0:59:43 - (Tamar Berk): See, I never expected. So maybe. Maybe that's one of those bands that have a bunch of songs, you know? Yeah, it is a really cool song. Really liked that song because it was different. You know, I am trying to stay in the present because I feel like I get extremely anxious when I think of the past and the future. So thinking about the future and what will happen with music is daunting and maybe even slightly depressing. So I, like, I'm in the moment. Got my vinyl in, got my cds in, meeting you, talking with you, and, like, that's the moment. This is what matters right now.

1:00:23 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Nice. You know, I'm glad that I'm the only thing that matters right now.

1:00:28 - (Tamar Berk): Exactly. Well, there you go.

1:00:32 - (Isaac Kuhlman): Yeah. I do appreciate your time and obviously spending, you know, well over an hour talking, so that's fun. That's the show for today. I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you learned anything or, like, what you heard on the show today, please show us some support and subscribe to this channel and, like, comment and share this video with a friend or put it up on social media. I hate to keep asking, but without those small actions, the YouTube bots pretty much ignore this channel. Putting these videos out is a lot of work. If you want to show your appreciation, please consider purchasing some of our musical accessories or merch from our store@poweredbyrock.com.

1:01:04 - (Isaac Kuhlman): you can read our blog and follow us in the links below as well. Those are the plugs and that's all I have. I'll see you soon for the next episode. Until then, rock on.

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